“Please…. Your freedom of the press is against my freedom of religion.”
By now, you have probably heard about a County Clerk in a little corner of Kentucky called Rowan County, who has been refusing to issue marriage licences ever since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of same-sex marriage. Her name is Kim Davis. In a statement about her refusal, she writes, “To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God’s definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience. It is not a light issue for me. It is a Heaven or Hell decision.” She goes on to declare that she will not be stepping down…. “I was elected by the people to serve as the County Clerk. I intend to continue to serve the people of Rowan County, but I cannot violate my conscience.” HERE IS WHY SHE IS EMPIRICALLY, COMPLETELY, OBJECTIVELY, AND, IN ALL OTHER WAYS, 100% WRONG.
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This is the face Kim Davis makes when people use their fancy “logic.”
LOGIC–Imagine you worked at a restaurant, and you believed that God thought drinking alcohol was a sin. Now imagine that the restaurant’s owners decided to start selling alcohol…. As an employee, you are NOT being forced to drink alcohol in violation of your religious liberty. And if you decide that having a job where you sell alcohol to others goes against your moral code, you are free to find another job, right? What you DON’T do is you don’t go into work and refuse to sell people alcohol–claiming “religious freedom”–and expect to keep your job. The same is true if your job is issuing people marriage licenses….
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He really does….
HYPOCRISY–Refusing to issue a marriage license to a couple because you believe the Bible condemns their union is a difficult position for a County Clerk to take without turning into a giant hypocrite. The Bible actually says nothing whatsoever about same-sex marriage. It does say quite a bit about the issue of divorce. It seems to say that if a person gets a divorce for a reason other than infidelity and then remarries, that person is guilty of adultery (that’s one of the big 10!). I wonder how many divorced people Kim Davis has issued marriage licenses to…. Of course, the Bible has some really interesting things to say to the Church about obeying the rules of their government. But then again, the Bible also says that women shouldn’t be in positions of authority. Yikes!
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Rowan County “Christians” should know better….
CONFUSION–Kim Davis and her supporters are arguing that forcing her to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples amounts to “Religious Persecution.” These people could not be more confused. It is not religious persecution to tell a person she is not allowed to persecute whole groups of people just because she (mistakenly or otherwise) believes that her religion calls for that persecution. This is the same mentality of the people who are opposing anti-bullying legislation on the grounds that they believe they should be allowed to bully gay kids as a part of the Christian expression of their beliefs. Just because you belong to some freaky “religion” that views forced sex with strangers as an act of worship, it doesn’t give you the right to go around raping people.
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I’m usually a pretty compassionate guy, but I’m sorry: Boo-Freaking-Hoo. Do your job.
INTEGRITY–I once heard Rob Bell say, “Christian is a fantastic noun, and a terrible adjective.” And while that is true, this should still be said: Staying on in a position for which you are refusing to perform the duties you were hired to perform–all while continuing to take a salary–is far from a “Christian” thing to do. It doesn’t matter is you were hired or elected, you agreed to take a position and perform the duties of that position. If–through a change in your own conscience, or a change in the laws of the country–you find yourself unable, in good conscience, to perform the duties your job entails, you DON’T keep taking money while refusing to work. You step down. Let’s say you accepted a position as One Direction’s publicist…. Then God changes your heart to see that their music is just awful and you decide you can’t (in good conscience) talk them up anymore, YOU DON’T refuse to step down but insist on still getting paid for a job you won’t do. That’s not “Christian.” That’s extortion. Do your job.
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Pingback: Four Reasons–From A Christian Perspective–Why Kim Davis Is 100% Wrong | Invisible Mikey
I wish Christian perspective (not yours) included more love and acceptance and less judging and condemnation. Whether you support same sex marriage or not, wouldn’t Christ show more through our lives if we were loving? Love the piece.
Thanks Jane. About the wish for “more love and acceptance and less judging and condemnation,” I believe that was Jesus’ hope as well. 🙂
Are you not familiar with LEVITICUS or what Jesus Christ Himself said about homo ‘love’. I would suggest you pick up the BOOK and read it for yourself before you go off thinking Jesus Christ is going to accept that ‘love’ on Judgement Day.
Jesus said exactly zero things about homosexuality.
You are a fountain of bad information. The contradictions in the Bible with what you say are legion. Let’s start with serving alcohol. Christians are specifically told in the Bible to NOT ever serve it to people. If a person has a job and the boss suddenly decides to start selling alcohol that Christian is supposed to just quit according to you? You seem to be terribly unfamiliar with the concept of persecution because anyone who attempts to force you to go against your beliefs is practicing persecution and firing someone who has been working for you for not going against their beliefs is a perfect example. Our country has always exempted people from performing things that violate their religious teachings and despite your claims the Bible most certainly teaches that homosexuality is wrong. That “elected” official should be forced to change her beliefs. It is no hardship on the residents of Morehead to drive the great distance of 39 miles to Grayson to get their “marriage” license. There are many other counties around Rowan Co that have clerks willing to submit to the abomination the government has put on them. People aren’t content with winning the overall battle, they think they must force every single person to not only accept but celebrate their sinful ways. Private businesses are fined outrageous amounts for refusing service to people. Yet no one is being fined for offending this clerk. All over the country other government officials are ignoring federal laws for such things as sanctuary cities to legalizing the use of marijuana. Why aren’t those people put in jail? You are a part of huge problem in this country and this brave woman is putting everything on the line to prevent your complete corruption of our entire culture. You will NOT force us all to sanction sin. You just might find that people care more about serving God than they care about serving this nation. You are asking for a civil war and you don’t even have the sense to know it. But given your complete misunderstanding of the Bible I’m not surprised. BTW Christ forgave the woman at the well for having been divorced several times. She was told not to do it again. She wasn’t made an outcast like you seem to want to do. You wouldn’t ask anyone else to live up to those standards. You really think you are smarter than God which is always a big mistake. If you don’t even know that people can be forgiven for divorces once they are saved you know NOTHING of Christianity. And Christ spent far more time talking about the “generation of vipers” of His time than he spent talking about forgiving people who don’t ask forgiveness. In fact He said they would NOT be forgiven for the very acts we are witnessing. He singled out homosexuals in particular for their perversion of common sense and the Word of God. He called the reprobate and turned them over to their lusts meaning He would have nothing to do with them and that includes blessing them. He was very specific about that. Maybe you might want to read that part of the Bible. Your cereal box version of Christianity leaves out pretty much everything except “though shall not judge” even though we are told to judge the actions of people time after time in the Bible. It would be insane not to or maybe you think allowing your children to hang out with a child molester is OK. Or perhaps genocide is fine too. We shouldn’t judge Hitler should we? Thou shall not judge.
Dude. That is a really long paragraph.
correction
should not be forced to change her beliefs
The Bible does not say anything about same sex marriage, but the act of engaging in same sex relations it is very clear. Also the Bible does say a lot about divorce, but everyone neglects the primary message of the gospel and that is forgiveness. When Kim was saved and began her Christian walk she left behind sinful ways. The Bible says we should not walk in sin, we should not practice sin. Once forgiven we have a clean slate, if we mess up, we have an advocate with the Father. Same sex marriage is walking in something that is an abomination to God. Kim not wanting to lend her name to that is her right under the second amendment. No law was violated her, there is no law in place saying she has to issue a homosexual couple a license, only an interpretation of the 14th Amendment, no law was ever violated nor is there any law in place for same sex marriage. As far as he refusing to do her job, why don’t you look up the large number of cases involving religion and the work place, the majority of which are filed by Muslims. Most recent a woman sues over dress code, something that was in place when she applied for the job..a requirement of the job. She sued under the 2nd Amendment and won. This nation was founded on the Gospel of Christ, by Christians….Christians who I dare say are rolling over in their graves right now.
This should not be too hard to understand, David. Try to follow me here…. Trying to force a man to not wear a yarmulke to his job=religious persecution. Telling a Muslim woman she can’t wear a hi-jab to work=religious persecution. Telling a Christian he can’t wear a cross necklace to work=religious persecution.
Being upset because the law does not allow you to bully gay kids even though your misunderstanding of the Bible makes you think you should≠religious persecution. Getting arrested for stoning your child when the Bible clearly tells you you should if the are disobedient≠religious persecution. Being held in contempt of court because you insist on discriminating against someone whose beliefs are different than yours≠religious persecution.
Do you get it?
I don’t know what bible you ready but
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
Leviticus 18:22 KJV
http://bible.com/1/lev.18.22.kjv
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Leviticus 20:13 KJV
http://bible.com/1/lev.20.13.kjv
Welp, I guess that settles it, Aaryn. Thanks.
Just dropping by to drop some verse grenades…. KJV-style.
Yet, your piece is full of nothing but judging of Kim Davis! It’s true what they, when you point a finger at someone, three more are pointing back at you.
I will see your “Three Fingers Pointing Back At You,” and I will raise you an “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue.”
“I will see your “Three Fingers Pointing Back At You,” and I will raise you an “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue.””
Wow. Now that was a really mature reply. What are you, 12?
As a parent I love my child but if they want to eat tons of candy and stay up all night and I tell them no and make them go to bed, does that mean am judging or condemning them?
I am just sick of the “Jesus was about “love” and he would love and accept all” talk…Seriously? that is a cop-out and a lame attempt to justify sinful activity. The line has to be drawn somewhere. What about when Jesus over-turned the money changers tables in the temple? Should he have been more accepting of their behavior? How dare he condemn their actions and not let them express themselves!
I couldn’t have said it better.
Only a moron would find these two things comparable – your dominion over your children’s eating habits and a U.S. Supreme Court’s mandate are two completely different situations. You may or may not agree with someone’s actions morally, but as an elected official you have a duty to your constituents to uphold the law. If the law goes converse to your beliefs to the point it will effect your conscience then you must remit your elected office.
The law of the land is indiscriminate allowance of all marital unions between two consenting adults. If anyone feels aggrieved by this decision, go to law school, study hard, be a great lawyer, get appointed to the bench, get nominated to Supreme Court and make your educated dissent, otherwise hush young mind and let the legal experts do their work.
I prefer my America (and Jesus) to be tolerable and accepting of all, mainly because that’s the reality. If you would like to make Jesus into some sort of Old Testament sinner’s-ass-kicker go right ahead, it’s a free world, ya know?
No, it doesn’t. Providing reasonable boundaries is a good thing and an important part of parenting. That’s a very different thing from telling people who are not Christians that because of my Christian faith they are subject to Christian Biblical law. Know of any other religions seeking to impose religious law on others? Will you stand firm for a Muslim DMV worker refusing to issue women a driver’s license?
Jesus had the moral authority to pass judgement and turn over tables. None of us do, we are fallen short.
You should allow those children to go stay overnight with child molesters too. Thou shall not judge after all.
“Parenting” is something that parents do. For their children.
You’re getting that confused with sticking your nose in other people’s business, who may or may not have the same foundational beliefs as you.
It’s a easy thing to do, and it can be confusing. Here’s a handy, dandy way to remember the difference–If you are getting into someone else’s business, and you’re trying to figure out whether or not what you are doing is “parenting” or not, here’s how to tell: If you are dealing with your own children, THAT’S parenting. If not, you can be relatively sure it’s not parenting.
Happy to help.
Well what if the Government or the neighbor decided to impose their religious beliefs on how you raise your children? Or what you can and can’t do?
She needs to answer for her own sins and I recommend she start with Romans 13:1-2
Because that makes it clear she is about to receive damnation or maybe she is in jail?
If you feel so strongly about not allowing someone to marry another person of the same sex when it’s not even discussed in the Bible, yet just dismiss the verse that guarantees you damnation for that refusal… well not so Biblical, mostly seems like bigotry and hate to me. There is not one mention of gay marriage anywhere in the Bible. There clearly is a command to follow the laws of the land.
Romans 13King James Version (KJV)
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
I don’t care how you raise your kids. You are their parent, and have parental authority.
People do not have authority over others. God wants people to make their own decisions. Whether you think it’s wrong or not it’s their life to live. Christians should spend a lot more time worrying about their own sins and flaws than concerning themselves with strangers’
It’s all about sin.. recognizing it, and turning away from it – 180 degrees. Our loving Savior would say (after the individual had confessed his/her sin), “Go and sin no more.”
This has nothing to do about judging and condemning, but about “being a fruit inspector.” Matt. 7:15-20
Amen, well said…
Recognizing your own sin and turning away from it. Right? Otherwise, you *are* judging and condemning.
Sisyphus unknowingly admitted the falsehood of his position. The Supreme Court does not issue mandates. It is not their purview. They are to only decide on the constitutionality of current law. They do not make laws. It is not their position to, as one describes as ‘evolving’ us into a direction of their choosing. The important question here is just what law did the county clerk break. She may have gone against a court’s unconstitutional edict, but what law? We are a nation of law, not mandates for edicts or politically correct BS. We should also consider the tenth amendment here. Marriage is not something that was left to the federal government to decide but is better left to the individual states. Even though it may be a very heady experience to change the definition of a term that has been with us for a couple of thousand years it is not for the decision of a few to lightly change no matter their personal beliefs.
Very well said. The comic book criticisms of the Bible never seem to get this point. They pick out little smidgens of information and turn it into a complete lie. Gee I could swear Christ warned us about that very thing happening.
Romans 1:25-27 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Or in modern English:
25 …who changed the truth of God into falsehood, and honoured and served the creature more than him who had created [it], who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile lusts; for both their females changed the natural use into that contrary to nature; and in like manner the males also, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their lust towards one another; males with males working shame, and receiving in themselves the recompense of their error which was fit.
GLEN DOWDY! Yes! Well said!
No human being has the authority to trRom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. y to over ride the Word of God. When it’s all said and done, the only thing that will really matter is, what did God say about it? His Word, and He’s the Author, condemns homosexuality. Period.
Well said Friend.
I love this! I really needed to read this today.
Our Country was founded on Christian principles; but, unfortunately, there are strong forces that wish to ‘change the Constitution. Our founding fathers loved God and respected each other. There would be no problems if ‘politically correct’ people would have left laws alone. Scripture strongly resists the permissive ‘same sex’ desires. We all need to have compassion on those who have deep hurts and try to honor their desire to have a godly family with an opposite sex partner. Raising children in godly ways is what it should be all about.
I’d recommend you look back over your US History. In no place is it mentioned by the founding fathers that they wished to include “christian principles” in this nation. In fact the entire point of this nation was to escape a country with a religion-fueled monarch where they were oppressed in the name of religion.
Some above put it pretty well – the United states is all about freedom of choice, including the freedom to choose whatever religion you please. No where does it say religious beliefs will be factored into laws, much less CHRISTIAN beliefs will be. That said, if you want religious freedom to include the freedom to discriminate based off something not conforming with your religion, you must agree that EVERY religion should have this right, since in the eyes of the law and this country, there is no religion recognized as superior or “more true”.
That said, would you stand behind a Muslim clerk of courts who refused to offer marriage licenses to infidels, people who aren’t virgins, those who will not use the Quran at their wedding, or same sex couples ? Or are you only agreeing with this because it suits YOUR religion and YOUR beliefs which you believe YOU have a right to force on other people, but other people have no right to force on you ?
God made the law…go forth be fruitful and increase in number…homos simple cannot abide by what marriage is by the deviant nature of their choice…who you love is not a choice…who you fuck is.
Such pretty language all in the same sentence connected with improper ellipses. A deviant choice is spending $10 on a meal at Taco Bell. Preferring the company of a hairy bear man when it’s cold out at Wednesday night dinner in the social hall is delicious.
Then your not following God’s laws.a man shall not lay with a man as with a woman and vis versa.god does say in the bible about his dislike for homosexuality.
God also does not like it when people incorrectly write “your” when what they mean is “you’re,” or when they don’t put spaces after periods…. Lucky God is so forgiving, right?
Where in the bible does it advocate imperfect sinning christians to act as law enforcement on behalf of God ? I thought the bible says to obey those who have rule over you, and that if they sin, God will judge them ? Not “God will judge those who christians did not get a chance to judge while on earth”…
God is also a God if wrath. Remember that.
Then I guess it’s a good thing that I don’t believe in your hateful, vengeful god, Aaryn.
She should go back to her first husband, and sin no more. God is good. I was a sinner like her God showed me the way. I returned to my husband. One man one women for life.
Go back to her first husband? Or should she maybe go back to her second? No, maybe her third. But she’s still married to her fourth. Oy, I can’t keep track.
Jesus was very clear! He loves them, but not what they are doing…marriage is ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN…the very word MARRIAGE, the definition of marriage is the joining together of a man and a woman…to make ONE whole..it takes two DIFFERENT sides..
‘I will see your “Three Fingers Pointing Back At You,” and I will raise you an “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue.”
Farmgirljo, I think the point he was making went right over your (block)head. Chris, you gave me my first LOL for the day! Perfect response 🙂 Have a great holiday weekend.
I just posted something about this on my Facebook page. According to my Catholic study Bible, we are supposed to accept and respect homosexuals. Christ did not reject anyone and neither should we. People forget this is one of the most important teachings of Christ. Everyone sins and we can’t pick and choose which sinners to love and which to hate, when we shouldn’t be hating any of them. If we hate homosexuals because it’s a sin, then we have a long list of types of people wev should hate….which means everyone, because we all sin.
You neglected to mention that Kim Davis has been divorced three times and married four times. And she’s worried about the sanctity of marriage?!
I don’t know that this is true. Also, this is not about shaming anyone for their actions as much as it is about critiquing the thought process that goes into those actions. If we get our heads right, we get our actions right.
I fail to see how this would be about “shaming” anyone. This falls in line with flat out hypocrisy!!
You say that you do not try to shame, yet all you do is shame upon what others write. I have yet to read a positive comment from you. If you really knew what the Bible said, you would know that those who judge others in any form, are people who choose to live by the law. And, you’d also know that the law was inherited by all mankind when both man and woman ate from the tree of knowledge. By eating from that tree they gained the ability to know good and evil. And, it is by knowing the difference between good and evil that all have fallen short of the glory of God.
However, if you read comments straight from Jesus in the book of Matthew, you notice comments such as “Judge not, lest ye be judged; Forgive others, so that your heavenly father may forgive you; Forgive not, and the father will not forgive you.” If you go to Romans, Paul talks about living by faith, and not by the body. Those who choose to live by the body choose to live by the law, which means that they cannot be redeemed because those who live by the law live carnally. However, those who live by faith, live lives as Abraham did.
Abraham wasn’t born into an era with the law already written, yet he was faithful in believing all the words of God spoken unto him. He had enough faith to even sacrifice his son, knowing God would provide a miracle; whether he believed his son would be raised from the dead, or another sacrifice was to be given is not told. He was told to have a circumcision done to all his family and followers (and himself), so they would know that God had chosen them as his children.
Since Christ came, circumcision is not considered the physical act anymore. It is now considered to be the mark of those who choose to believe Jesus to be the son of God. And, just so you know, unless you are one who will choose to eventually accept Christ, then you will never be able to interpret scripture properly, unless allowed by God. So, it’s not any one person’s fault that they don’t understand something. Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace, but to put enmity between all brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers. He does this because when the end comes, those who choose to side with their family, friends, or others, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Look at all the movements like white supremacists, black lives matter, Islam, and more. All of these groups have one thing in common; they chose family/race/religion as their priority, rather choosing live a holy life without condemning others. Only those who are strong enough to walk the lonely road will make it to heaven. You don’t believe in Christ because others believe. You believe because you know that his way is the only way to live a righteous life.
Oh, and as to the definition of marriage, it’s the act of sex. It’s not a ceremony. God commanded humanity to go forth and populate the Earth. If you can’t populate the earth by the path you chose, then you aren’t doing what your supposed to. And, as to Jesus, and you saying he never said anything about Gay marriage. Matthew Chapter 24 around verse 34 or so it says that all the way up until the end, humanity will be marrying and “giving in marriage” as in the the days of Noah. Marrying and giving in marriage can be interpreted as infidelity, idol worshiping, adultery, abominable sexual acts (I say act because technically two men and two women cannot officially consummate a relationship without the ability to share DNA specimens from the male donor. Now, with two males, you can share disease, but not DNA), or the changing of the official definition of marriage (as done by the Supreme Court, when they officially changed the definition of marriage, ‘giving in’ to populace demand; I hope you saw the quotation marks. It was done purposely).
As to whether I believe this woman is doing the right thing, I don’t condone it. Why? It’s because 1 Thessalonians around Chapter 5, it talks about “abstaining from all things evil.” When you think about how Christ stated that we need to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s; I like to think that the best way to handle this would have been to give up your job if what Caesar was asking of you was against God’s commands. See, by turning away, she would have had a better chance at obtaining a different job in the future. However, by trying to force her truth upon others, people are seeing her as a villain, simply because she’s deemed herself worthy of being judge and jury. That’s God’s job, and because she has chosen to judge others, she will be judged, as it is said by Christ. And, by doing things this way, she will have a tough time finding a job in the near future.
In Romans 4, Paul talks about if there is no law, then how can one sin. It is by knowing the law, any law, humanity left themselves vulnerable to make mistakes. That’s why is you live by faith in Christ, you choose to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive others. Also, living by faith, means that, no matter what anyone else says, you are able to fight temptation off with your mind. Your body will continue to lead you towards a path of destruction because it is a product of the law. However, your mind, once having inherited the Holy Spirit, is a product of Christ’s love. You mind, through the Holy Spirit, is able to distinguish between when and where to turn from something. If you don’t think it to be right, or it hurts the body/temple of God, then you probably shouldn’t be doing that particular deed. If something doesn’t seem natural, then it probably isn’t. No man or woman knows their own body better than God. Why? Well, if you knew your body as well as God, you’d know that things that hurt the body, are not good for the body. If it cause pain or discomfort, you probably shouldn’t be doing it. And, this is where humanity takes over.
Humans try things they know hurt, like tattoos or drugs or same sex relationships, simply because they are tempted to try something new that they haven’t experienced for themselves. Humans are prone to temptation. Look at Eve. The serpent told her that she surely wouldn’t die (immediately) and she thinks, “Great! And, it looks good to eat too.” Stupidity runs in our genes. And, that my friend, is why people choose to follow the Bible.
It is a book full of previous generation knowledge, meant to help us avoid irrationality, and just doing whatever comes to our imagination. If left to humanity, we’d all just kill off each other, screw anything that makes a sound, and not have a care in the world, and most likely would end up hating everything, and eventually kill ourselves simply because life would have no meaning. If there is no God, then there is no point to life. Without God, we simply exist without any purpose. If there were no purpose in living, all people would kill themselves without a second thought; yet they don’t. And, why? That’s because all humans, no matter which religion, or non religion feels a need to find a reason for existing. That’s why we continue to live, rather than take ourselves out. We live to please and seek the love of our maker.
I’m going to be honest with you: I couldn’t make it through all of that.
I am amazed that you need to keep stating this blogpost is NOT about shaming. It saddened me that people on both sides of this feel the need to point fingers at the one who is wrong here. I felt that you honestly and respectfully took your own religion to task in this and called a fellow sister in Christ to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord and the State. People using scripture to argue their point is the EXACT wrong thing to do with scripture. It reminds me of the saying written of Jesus that there are many things I wish to teach you but you are not able to bear them.
The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. When we read scripture we must always read through the lens of universal, eternal love to see what the text is saying to us in context of what it was saying at the time.
Not eating shellfish was a brilliant law for its time because people didn’t understand that bacteria cooks out at a certain temperature. It was a law to keep people healthy. This is important when the goal is to keep people safe and grow a tribe.
Just as a man lying with another man would not produce an offspring, this would not grow a tribe either. Let us remember that if that law ever even needed writing it shows that there were people of that day and time attracted to the same sex, just like today. The difference being that there was no way of conceiving a loving committed relationship between the two men (or women)at that time.
Paul was brilliant in his writings as he wrote what he did because he played the political angle of the day. The empower of Rome around 4BC tried to legislate morality seeing that Romans were producing offspring through concubines and having sex with others of the same sex. As he soon learned, this attempt didn’t work. Late paul talks about sexual indecency but through the lens of Ezekial speaking of the mountain top orgies committed in worship to pagan gods. Here he lumps things together to show that the idolatry was the issue. Paul himself, would not have considered the possibility of two people living together as a couple if same sexed. All of this should be read and seen through the understanding of the society they lived in. Not the one we live in.
Just as we have learned to cook shell fish to safely eat and wear mixed fabrics as we don’t need to identify ourselves as different from other tribes we too can learn that mixed race couples are not only possible but beautiful and friends of ours who’ve live in commitment to one another for decades can make our society better though they are of the same sex.
The desire to keep some of these laws as important while we skip by the posts of refugees being slaughtered or prisoners left to rot in jail for crimes they’ve more than payed for without a glimmer of hope from us, the Christians while fighting for the rights of a person not willing to do her job saddens me.
What I find most interesting in all of this is that you, like Rob Bell whom you quote from time to time aren’t really saying anything new. This sort of discussion has been a thread in Christendom for as long as it has been in existence, yet, people are hell bent on proving you’re wrong. My faith, my God, my discovery is solid enough in its doubts to appreciate your take on scripture even if I disagree. Yet, knowing you as a friend, even if I disagree with you on something I know your heart is leaning in the right place and if you are wrong you are the first to admit it.
You apparently don’t understand God’s forgiveness. She sinned in the past by divorcing. That is true. However, we do not know when or if she asked God’s forgiveness of those sins. We can make an educated guess that she has done so, since she seems to be holding to Christian morality. If she has indeed asked forgiveness, then God no longer counts or remembers those sins and tasks us to no longer remember them either. Therefore, by bringing up what are likely old, forgiven sins, you are the tool of Satan, trying to bring her back down into sin.
This is a core belief of the CoC cult.
Sean… That’s wonderful! So I can whore around, have premarital sex, beat up some people, do lots of drugs and drink to a stupor everyday of the week. Then it will all be forgiven in Gods eyes if I show up to church on Sunday and pray for forgiveness. Then I can do it all over again the next week, just as long as I’m back in church the next week. I can do whatever the hell I want and go to heaven as long as I ask God for forgiveness!
That sir is the hypocrisy.
Ok, I have to jump in here. Divorce is NOT a sin. Jesus even said you can issue a certificate of divorce. Now, if you were to get divorced for ANY reason besides your partner being unfaithful and then you remarried, you would, by biblical law, be committing adultery. From my understanding, Kim Davis has only been a firm believer for the past 8 or so years, so any divorces before that period (and any adulteries) would have been forgiven.
She is currently married to a man who was not her first husband. That means, looked at biblically, that she is in an ongoing adulterous relationship. Meanwhile, she has never refused to sign a marriage license for a divorced person (i.e., a person entering into a biblically adulterous marriage). In this way her bigotry is exposed as the real reason she is doing this, and her biblical claims are shown to be malarkey.
Amen.
Jesus forgave her for her sins, so she needs to go forward and SIN NO MORE. She would be sinning if she issued marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
Please, go back and re-read the article on which you are commenting. This is addressed by the author. In case you missed it, let me help —
1. LOGIC – Imagine you worked at a restaurant, and you believed that God thought drinking alcohol was a sin. Now imagine that the restaurant’s owners decided to start selling alcohol…. As an employee, you are NOT being forced to drink alcohol in violation of your religious liberty. And if you decide that having a job where you sell alcohol to others goes against your moral code, you are free to find another job, right? What you DON’T do is you don’t go into work and refuse to sell people alcohol–claiming “religious freedom”–and expect to keep your job. The same is true if your job is issuing people marriage licenses.
So she never should have issued marriage licenses to people who were divorced for reasons other than infidelity? Because by doing that, she is helping those people commit adultery, therefore sinning.
She is living in sin by having a Biblically adulterous relationship with her 4th/2nd husband. The divorce isn’t a sin according to Biblical law; the remarriage is. Her first husband is still alive, and she was the one having an affair during that marriage. That instance of adultery may well be forgiven, but she’s still having an ongoing affair with her current husband. She’s still Biblically obligated to the first one. That’s not sinning no more.
Did those events happen before she became a born again Christian? I believe so…
You mean is she currently married to a man who was not her first husband while her first husband is still alive? Yes, which makes her in a current biblically adulterous relationship. Nice try though, Frieda.
Issuing marriage licenses to those who’ve been divorced before is no different. So why isn’t she against that? Not following the laws of the land as God commands is also a sin, why isn’t she concerned with what Romans has to say?
Just likes those verses about gays it seems. The rest of the Bible doesn’t matter to her nearly as much. So seems that it’s simply a prejudice on her part because none of the other sinful souls that roll through her office she refuses to do her job.
Any idea WHY she got divorced??? Could she have been cheated on? Beat up? You have NO idea. Christians acknowledge their SIN and turn from it. You have NO idea why she turned to Christ… and NO ONE has asked her either.
Sooooo true.
That has already been covered, she just recently (3 years) gave her life to Christ and asked him for forgiveness. Go protest something important like the killing of innocent people by illegal aliens. Officials refusing to enforce specific laws. Get a brain and don’t repeat a pathetic attempt to condemn this woman.
“Go protest something important like the killing of innocent people by illegal aliens.”
Again…. Laugh or cry? I’m not sure.
Alright, I decided. I choose laugh.
She’s only been a Christian 4 years. I wouldn’t throw stones, if I were you, veronica. Pretty sure you’ve got some dirt under your nails, too. She isn’t “worried about the sanctity of marriage”, she’s worried about her name granting legal license for homosexual marriage. Her faith, which is quite young, convinces her that this is a heaven or hell issue. That’s her faith, her religious belief. She is entitled to that, Constitutionally entitled.
But above all, she is upholding Kentucky law.
Of course she’s entitled to her religious beliefs. Don’t you just love America? What she’s NOT entitled to is to decide that for anyone else, so her ass is going to sit in jail until she decides to follow the law or quit her job. What is it about that simple concept that’s too complicated for you to understand?
Religious freedom trumps that.
But the biggie, the part you want to overlook, she is following the laws of the Sovereign State of Kentucky, and the Supreme Court cannot overrule that.
This is for you, “FarmGirlJo:” https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Mic. Drop.
Amen!! Well said!!
A credible source reporting on Kim Davis’ four marriages. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/09/01/kentucky-clerk-fighting-gay-marriage-has-wed-four-times?src=usn_fb
I saw that. 1) I didn’t see major news sources reporting on it (is this US News & World Report?). and 2) My point is not to shame people who have been divorced. There are good reasons to get a divorce. She has plenty of hypocrisy without me bringing up her divorces…. And If I did, it would only be in an attempt to disprove her misguided Biblical Literalism.
A literal reading would be that if she asked God’s forgiveness, then her sins are expiated and are remembered no more. By dredging them up and casting them upon her again, you are the tool of Satan.
That article states that she gave her life to Christ 4 years ago… 3 years after her third divorce. Need I say more?
What does it matter?
“She gave her life to Christ?” So maybe I’ll give my life to Dr. Seuss. Who cares? Either she does her job or she quits. Period.
Apparently who so ever wrote this hasn’t read a bible. The bible does speak of same sex relations. I support her in every way and pray she can keep standing strong on Gods word!
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an animation: they shall surely be put to death: there books shall be upon them.
The New Testament also teaches us that Jesus “Put away The Law and the Prophets” (AKA The Old Testament) and left us with one all encompassing law, “To love one another as He has loved us”. We can’t pick and choose which Old Testament laws we will and will not live by. If we were to live by Old Testament law, which by the way to my understanding applied to the Hebrews, we’d have public stoning for what we’d today consider to be mainly rather insignificant transgressions as well as capital punishment in all states, provinces and western countries; women would be subservient to men, and for that matter, slavery would be commonplace and acceptable.
Greg…there is more in the New Testament than in the Old. I always am amazed how those who do not know Jesus Christ as their personal savior continues to tell Christian what Jesus says and what He would do. Jesus said in 1 John…..if you love me you will obey me. We don’t obey because it is a law you obey because you love Him.
Matthew 5:17″Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18″For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19″Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
Jesus spoke a ton on sexual immorality, a subject clearly outlined in Leviticus and well understood by his Jewish audience. As the New Testament says, Jesus did not come to abolish the law, he came to fulfill their purpose.
And a second thought, I hope you weigh my words with sincerity if you really want to know more about scripture, because the picture is vividly clear and it is too common for people to take one piece of the picture and apply that. Jesus saved a women from a public stoning by telling people if they were without sin, cast the first stone. This is a great example of the forgiveness of Jesus and His true purpose, but never for a second did He ever condone immorality. He always told the people he came in to contact with to ‘Go and sin no more.” Jesus’ purpose was to take away the wages of sin which were death, but as Paul clearly expounds upon, we were once slaves to sin, but because of Jesus we are slaves to righteousness. To continue in sin would be to crucify Christ again and mock His great act of forgiveness. THIS is why Christ came, not to excuse any desire your heart has but to uphold the righteousness of God while providing a way for imperfect humans to be forgiveness and made whole again.
Trey, I suggest you read the word in its entirety as well as read the authors post with greater detail. The author said same-sex marriage which is never mentioned in the bible. But the bible is very clear on adding and subtracting from the word of God Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Or he will reprove you and you will be proved a liar. In the same book not *just a few verses from your verse is` Leviticus 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. And then you Also have Leviticus Chapter 11
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you.
8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you. Are you abiding in all of these commands if not then stop picking and choosing what you want to use to persecute others.
I’m not proud of everything I have done in this life but I don’t regret it either, I wouldn’t change anything I have done. Where I have been, what I have been through, the heart break, the joy, the love, the pain, the feeling of seclusion, all of it has played a part in making me the imperfect, ever changing, ever growing, strong, and if I do say so myself awesome person that I am, and even more awesome person I am destined to become. I welcome the test trial and tribulations set forth before me, because I know I will not lie down, I will not cowar. I will not fear. For if God be for us, who can be against us. You may not agree and that’s fine, honestly, but your opinion of me is none of my business. I am no less a born again child of the most High King than any one else. Your struggles are yours, my struggles are mine. Rather than debating over who is right, judging, and condemning, we should be loving each other, lifting each other up, and praying for one another. This has been weighing on my heart for some time. When are we as Christians going to finally open or eyes to our own hypocrisy. This church or that church, this member or that member, this doctrine or that doctrine, none of us is any better than the other, Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Christianity is not a competition. We are so busy fighting amongst denominations, amongst our own members, and judging sinners by appearance or by their sin that we are forgetting what being a Christian is truly about…. Love. We have forgotten to love the lost, honestly we have forgotten to love ourselves, and worse we have forgotten to love each other. Christ said in John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that ye love one another, just as I have loved you.” The church for quite some time has presented itself as a museum for the saved and self righteous. When in fact we should all be staff in this hospital for the broken. Jesus teaches us this in, in Matthew 9:10-13 “10) And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11) And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Mind you what this means to me may not be what you interpret it to mean. That is fine, Philippians 2:12 tells us to “….work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” But back to Matthew. What I have come to understand from Matthew 9:10-13 is Christ knew that salvation can not be given to those who are already saved. Salvation is to be given to the sinner. If this is the case as I believe it is then why are churches turning away the broken, the down trodden, the husbandless mother, the harlots, the SINNER. We are turning away those which Christ himself taught us to embrace. The church has become complacent to the teachings and example that Christ gave us. God bless you all.
If I wanted to get married so badly, I would go to the next county and get my marriage license so let’s get real here. The real reason that this is happening is to make a point. So yes the courts will decide on man’s law and later on GOD will decide it all. See time and time again man thinks he is clever and denies God because he is that arrogant. But in the end, everyone will see what the true law is God’s law. And I love every human being regardless of our differences ( I may not agree on some of their ways)because we are “ALL” God’s children but I think society is like a bunch of pretentious children running around ignoring God’s laws like a child defying their parents. And someday God will make things right and we will not want to act like such shallow and ungrateful people. We are a bunch of spoiled and self-centered human beings who are NOT thankful for the freedom’s that we do have. Go live in Iraq or Afghanistan and then you’ll see how it is to live in true misery and pain. This issue is so minuscule to the problems this country is facing it is almost laughable. I say this all this with love and peace.
John. I only wish more Christians thought the way you did and had your compassion. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here. This world is a better place with people like you in it.. I am a practicing Buddhist who walked away from the church many years ago due to the hypocrisy and butt load of other issues that I just couldn’t swallow any further. If there had been more people like you involved I may have stuck around. Peace be with you my friend
Why should anyone have to drive anywhere much less forty miles away when the live in and pay taxes in Rowan County? Just to appease a County Clerk? No sir, why can’t she just do her job? The job she gets paid in excess of $80 a year to do,.
Oh no, They committed an “ANIMATION”. Damn. I love cartoons. What a shame. Lawd help em. Sweeeet JEEEESSUUUUSSS!
Christains are so afraid of losing their religious rights. Why? The christain religion is the majority in the united states. They have all the same freedoms that the other religions are granted by the constitution. Why worry?
Because Christains scream the loudest and hate more. They “say” they are here to save the world and its people. So i guess by standing on a corner and screaming how god hates brings people to church. Christains have bought their judgement upon themselves. You get treated the way you treat others. Kim should step down for her religious beliefs. God and Jesus did not see the government and church as one. Jesus said give to Cesar what his. He saying follow the laws of the land.
Someone said that same sex marriage is not the law. No it’s not law but the law now allows and protects it. Kim and her followers are not helping to save people. They are turning away people and hurting the church. The opportunity for salvation was wasted, is that a sin too?
“Committed An abomination”
Thanks for clearing that up, Shell.
Just keep picking and choosing the parts of the Bible that pertain to what you want it to. I’ll bet you are a horrible person to be around. You’re the type of person I would love to follow around and just point out infractions that you are committing that the bible says are wrong, you would I’m sure have an argument and justification why it doesn’t apply to you. The ultimate reason would be cherry picking, and most likely I’d assume you’re are probably a fucking asshole.
1) No reason for the name-calling, Ben.
2) Are you talking to me? I hope you’re talking to me. Either way, cool it with the meanness.
And boo freaking woo was not mean?
You can agree or disagree with what she is doing bottom line as Christians we should be praying for her and God’s will in this matter.
Yup, I’m human, Kelli. I’m not going to comfort a slave-owner who is crying about his slaves being freed, and I’m not going to feel a whole lot of sympathy for a woman who is crying about being told she has to treat human beings equally. Deal with it.
AMEN Trey: But, you spelled “Abomination” Wrong. God LOVES Everyone. He doesn’t Hate “Gays or Lesbians? He HATES the SIN. I Do Not Hate Anyone either? But, If GOD & the BIBLE says it is WRONG? Then, it IS WRONG. Plain & Simple. So,WAKE UP CHRISTIANS & Take a STAND. We as “CHRISTIANS” HAVE SET BACK WAYY TOO LONG TELL ME..HOW CAN WE EVEN THINK OF GOD BLESSING AMERICA? WHEN, WE SET BACK & ALLOW ALL THIS STUFF TO HAPPEN? WAKE UP AMERICA. WAKE UPPPPPP!!
Actually, God doesn’t hate. There is no proof in the Bible that God hates sin.
Also, since you seem to be so against homosexuality…have you eaten shellfish recently? Pork? Are you wearing mixed fabrics? Because if you are doing any of that, you are sinning, just like the homosexuals (hint hint, you can find all this in Leviticus, along with how man shouldn’t lie with another man) Yea…basically if you have had some pork or shellfish (that includes shrimp, lobster, crab, etc) then you are exactly the same in God’s eyes as a homosexual. It does say in the bible that no one sin is greater or less than another in the eyes of the Lord…so tell me again…we should stand up against what?
@ Cheddar. Are you a Christian? Because what you’re saying is false according to God’s word. God does hate. It actually says that in the Word. Not only does the Bible use the word “hate” but it also uses other words that carry the connotation of hatred like abomination which means a thing which causes disgust or hatred. God hates sin. He hates it so much that when we sin, it separates us from Him. It literally creates a distance between the Creator and the creation. It is such an anathema to Him that in order to reconcile Himself to sinners, He had to send His own flesh and blood, his son, to bridge the gap that sin created between us and Him. That’s how much He hates sin. Sin is anti-God and anti-Christ. And He hates it. That’s Biblical.
Also, I can tell that you’re either not a Christian or have never read the Word because of the second part of your “argument.” It’s so erroneous that I don’t have the will to go through and correct every single thing you’ve said. If you’re going to tell Christians about Christ, you’d think you’d at least read the Bible before arguing about it, because to those who have read it, you lack understanding and knowledge.
So many people have an interesting view of who God is and who Christ is. God IS love, but that doesn’t mean He will accept a person’s presumptuous sin. The whole point of Jesus is to be washed clean and sin no more. But you have to know what that sin is in order to avoid it. The danger comes in when people start ignoring His word and supporting something, homosexuality in this instance, that God has CLEARLY labeled sin. Well, how are you going to walk with God? How is Christ going to bridge the gap if you’re happily rolling around in the garbage and the repugnance of wickedness?
Just saying.
IT ALSO SAYS THAT THE ONLY SIN IS HOMOSEXUAL SEX!!! WE R NO DIFFERENT THEN HETEROSEXUAL. WE ARE ALL EQUAL, ITS NOT NO ONES PLACE TO JUDGE OTHERS. BUT OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN! WHEN U JUDGE YOU ARE SINNING.
PEACE TO ALL THE HATERS
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE ALL THE WAY!
WE R ALL EQUAL =
So you also avoid shrimp, clams and oysters as well, Trey? Do you check your fabrics to make sure they’re not blended? Or are you, like Kim Davis, using whatever parts of the bible you can to be a hateful bully? So you think women should be shunned during their period? Take it word for word or don’t take it all, Trey. Otherwise, you’re only using parts of the bible to give you an excuse to be a bigot. Of course, I’m sure you won’t lose any sleep over that as long as you give yourself a nice excuse to stone the sinners, right? You’re as big a hypocrite as Kim Davis and just as hateful and ugly. Hopefully, someday there will be someone who shows you the same hatred that you show the rest of the world. I guarantee you’ve got it coming as do any other hypocrites who cherry picks Leviticus to bully people. You disgust me.
Love this reply ^^ I love the reactions I get when I tell them that because they are wearing different fabrics, they look the exact same in the eyes of God along with homosexuals. Oh that gets them fired up! They will argue all night and day they are different sins and these aren’t “biblical times” anymore, but they refuse to acknowledge that no sin is greater or less than another (according to the Bible). Cherry pickers for you.
The New Testament says go by the law of the land ,she is not! God will handle what ever needs to be delt with not you. Live and let live, spread the love.
Love the sinner, not the sin. Most people have a problem differentiating between the two. Condoning sin is no better than sinning, and if she issued the license, she’d be condoning it. This could all be avoided if they didn’t force it to be called a marriage, which is a holy Sacrament. Call it a civil union and give them the same rights as married couples. But that’s not what they want. They want to remove Christianity and God from our country. Hence the baker issue also. They could very easily have gone to a baker willing to make a cake for them, but in their selfish way, wanted to punish the Christians. Real loving of them, huh? Well I don’t think they’ll enjoy the result.
The interesting thing is, it is not the law. The courts, not even the Supreme court, can create laws or change them. Only the Legislature can make laws. Somehow everyone is forgetting their basic Gov’t course and how our Government is set up. 3 branches, seperate jobs.
@Rodger, your comment is nonsense for several reasons, not the least of which is that most homosexuals in the U.S. are Christians. To say that they want to remove Christianity and God from our country is ludicrous. No one is trying to force you to marry a man. If they do, you’ll have real reason for complaint. Until then, worry about keeping your own house in order.
Ahh… A brief glimpse of sanity. Thank you Kathy.
JACEE, this is for you: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Excellent response. The writer obviously has no clue what Christianity is all about. And has never opened a Bible, or a liar.
So that is how Animation got started…..I get it now.
An animation? And under a pile of books? Trey, can you read the Bible?
Correct.
Ah, good ol’ Old Testament law ! As you said, Jesus came to fulfill the law, which is why none of us born again Christians can eat pork, shrimp or shellfish, and also why it’s perfectly acceptable to sell your daughter into slavery per Exodus Chapter 21, kill anyone who works on the sabbath as in Exodus 35, and stone any farmers who sow 2 different seeds side by side. Glad you straightened out those sinners who want to disobey Old Testament Law !
The writer claims the Bible teaches “that if a person gets a divorce for a reason other than infidelity and then remarries, that person is guilty of adultery.” The writer ignores the fact that divorce was commanded by the Hebrew Law so that women could be freed from one marriage, that to men who refused to have them as wives and provide for them, so they can marry a man who would have them but that separation from a wife was commanded when the marriage was unlawful, as in cases of incest. Being married to more than one woman, even at the same time, was not forbidden. Jesus taught that men were guilty of adultery when they refused to provide for one wife in favor of another, without divorcing that wife out of favor so she could legally be married to another man. The exceptions He gave were those marriages which were unlawful according to their Law, including incestuous marriages and marriages to individuals of the same sex. In those cases, no divorce was necessary since the marriage was against the Law.
When Jesus said his comments on divorce, he was actually making a stand for the rights of the women. He was saying to the men there, “You can’t just hand a woman a certificate of divorce because you don’t feel like being married anymore.” Divorcing a woman would leave her as a social pariah, and it wasn’t like there were a whole bunch of woman’s jobs at that time for her to have so she could take care of herself.
Context is important.
First off, you are completely wrong. The bible DOES say that, if a man shall lie down with another man, he is an abomination. So there ya go point number 2, SQUASHED!!. Also, in regards to her being remarried 4 times. Maybe she has been forgiven, or maybe she hasn’t turned her life over to the Lord yet. You don’t know her, or where her heart is with the lord. The bible says, if you are to get divorce, you must marry a man of God. And the only way for him to be okay with divorce is by infidelity. Maybe the reason she got divorced is because he cheated.. Yall are so judgemental. Leave her to her decisions, you don’t realize just how hard it is being a Christian anyway. Also, go read the bible. The king James version bible. Maybe then you will have something useful.
Ignorance is no excuse.
“So there ya go point number 2, SQUASHED!!” is one of my favorite comments so far. It’s comments like these that keep me filled with the inspiration to keep writing. Thanks, Amber, for the encouragement!
The bible condemns gay SEX not gay MARRIAGE. That was the writer’s point.
But, you’re completely right regarding her marriages. “Perhaps she hasn’t turned her life to Christ yet” is a pretty great explanation as to why it’s acceptable for her to judge while she has these “marks” in her past, because if she hasn’t turned her life to Christ yet, those marks apparently are okay in your eyes.
So, then why isn’t gay marriage between 2 people who “haven’t turned their lives over to Christ yet” okay ? How about the fact that if she HAS turned her life to Christ, she is STILL in an adulterous relationship, since it was HER infidelity to her first husband which prompted their divorce (he left her) and she married the guy she was having an affair with. Then she divorced him, married someone else, divorced them and remarried the 2nd guy, and you’re right, all this happened before she got saved. But when she got saved she didn’t go back to her first husband, she is still with the man she committed adultry with.
So, if 2 gay people got married before they were saved, and then got saved and continued to stay married, that would also be okay, because the marriage as a whole was forgiven by God when they got saved ?
Sorry Amber: Just read in The HOLY BIBLE. In the Book of “LEVITICUS” Chapter 20 Verse 13. It Cannot be ANY Plainer than that? IF,YOU KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE BIBLE? You Take ALL or NONE? If, GOD said it is WRONG? Then,IT IS WRONG. NO Matter HOW You may wanna Justify it? And i BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD “THE HOLY BIBLE”!! GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!!
Did you not read my comment? Haha, I said it is wrong.. it’s an abomination, and if you are talking regards to the divorce. Please keep reading.. Also, if you are christian as you say, then you would not be bad mouthing me. I mean, what are you trying to prove? I am clearly saying I am a christian as well, and stating my opinion. God bless you too, darlin. Haha
Hahaha Chris. You brought out the creme de la creme with this one. (Getting popcorn)
Ummm can I just say that yes divorce is in the bible but it’s not for the benefit of the woman, there are multitudes of verses that say a woman who gets divorced is no longer sacred and that she must be separated from the clean flock. Also woman are secondary persons in the Old Testament and since you seem to want to follow that you should be bowing down to all men and not say a word even your opinions are not valid because you are a woman and second fiddle only to us men. You and all women kind according to the bible have no place in men’s society other than procreation. If we really want to throw bible verses and laws around why not throw that in there too, or is it that you won’t stand for that because it’s wrong for the bible to say that? You know you can look at the world in the most narrow of views but that doesn’t make your views reality. The world and God are not play things and as a Catholic I feel that many Christians especially conservative (Protestants) Christians have given Christianity a bad name and have pushed more people away, like what you are doing right now, to the true word of God which is love and care for one another don’t judge them for what they do and do not condemn them for what they do for you to have sinned in the eyes of the lord and are no better than your neighbor. But obviously so many of you forget that fact and think you’re going straight to heaven because you condemn and deny people, well let’s point this out Jesus hung out with the most wretched and sinful people but did he ever judge them? Did he condem them? No he actually loved them enough no matter their sin but again your kind of Christianity twists and pollute what most Christians try to show and that’s acceptance and compassion. It’s a shame that Christians like you call yourself such because in my eyes you’re not Christians but a diluted cult full of deceit and lies.
I think it’s funny that you don’t think we live under the law.. you as a Catholic are not living right. And for you to sit there and say that I am a woman and should never speak, is horrible. I would never say that the bible is wrong. Yes it says that woman are not supposed to preach, and that if a woman has any questions, she is to ask her husband at home. But we are under a new law. I go by everything the bible says. Because in the end I will have to be the one to answer for my sins. I’m not saying I’m perfect. I’m saying I need my savior every single day. Also, just because your Christianity beliefs are different does not mean that I condone anything that you believe in.. my lord is a loving God. But in the end, after everything is over with and God comes back to get his people, I hope and pray that I see you on the other side. Why must ever children of God go again each other. Everyone is asking for love. But noone is doing anything to show it. But that’s okay, I don’t have to answer to your wrong doings, and you don’t have to answer to mine. And in the end, no matter how much I argue with people. I still love yall. Because he gives me so much love that I must share it with others. I’m done with this. I know I will never get my point across. Good luck, and may God have mercy upon your souls!!
Who are you people?
Jesus didn’t just hang around with sinners, He warned them of judgement and hell. He also told the woman caught in a sexual act, to “go and sin no more.” He told a man He had healed to not return to his former way of life, “lest a worse thing happen to you.” He loved but spoke the truth with boldness. As for judging, he said to “judge righteously.” He didn’t say not to judge at all.
Hypocrisy is telling Christians not to judge, but you judge every day yourselves. You judge who your children can hang around. If that person is a bad influence you don’t allow your child to be with them. You are judging their character. Why don’t you just love them anyway and not base your decision on how they behave. Why don’t you just love them and take chances on whether your child will be harmed by them? Stop with the pious “judge not” when you do that yourselves, in every area of your life.
Amber, you are delusional. “You don’t realize just how hard it is being a Christian”? Try being ANYTHING ELSE in this country. Walk a mile in the shoes of a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, and then tell me it’s hard being a Christian. The comments on this blog are a freak show.
You have a profound misunderstanding of our culture. Muslims routinely are given favorable treatment despite your protests to the contrary. They are actually allowed to judge their fellow Muslims in their “courts” outside of the legal system. Schools teach classes on Islam and refuse to allow any mention of Christ at all. This list of contradictions to your claims could be extremely long. And no one is harassing Buddhists that I know about. In fact they are given preferential treatment in many ways. The Dalai Lama is welcomed to the White House and treated like a rock star around the country speaking to large audiences in stadiums. We do this knowing full well the political confrontation with China this causes. You think it’s “hard” being a Buddhist?? How? There isn’t a lot of problems for Jewish people in this country either. The truth is they are often accused of causing problems for others. They teach a great disdain for Jesus Christ which has been a source of conflict for centuries. They don’t cause huge problems but no one causes them huge problems either. They are often given favored status in fact because they have a strong lobbying presence. Many would swear our allegiance with Israel is a source of great trouble for us. I don’t hold that belief but our President does. Like most people posting here you are dreadfully misinformed about many things. Your PC views aren’t shared by all of us and we are tired of having them dictated to us.
Kingghidora, You’ve obviously confused being persecuted with getting your way all the time. It’s ok, lots of Christians are confused about that.
Amber, the Bible says a lot of things that are considered sinful. These people that you are calling judgmental are the ones that have had to fight all their lives to be able to love and have the same rights as any other human being that by the way God loves just as equally. I believe the ones that have been judgmental are the ones that are refusing to do their job. How about you all leaving everyone to their own decisions and yes many of us do know how hard life is and the struggles of being a Christian. I am a very loving Christian man, who has spent years in the military fighting for my county. I read the Bible and study it. I love the Bible and I love God and Jesus Christ. I have found that the older I get just how ridiculous everyone sounds arguing over this issue. I know that God loves me and I know how God feels about me and I know how people can be mislead when they are young in believing horrible things like, hatred, racism, sin, etc., etc., ….. I believe that maybe you need to look back at your words and see the real judgmental thoughts that are coming out of them. I am not afraid to tell anyone that I am a Christian, I am a Army War Veteran and I am a Great Father and I am an American and I am gay. And there is absolutely nothing I would change about myself. God loves me just the way I am. It is not God that cannot accept his children, it is human beings that cannot accept each other and they want to use the Bible as a reference to use against each other and other parts of the Bible to justify what they are feeling. Everyone does it and it is very sad. The Bible is about Gods Love and Hospitality. Best of Luck to you Amber, BYW, Kim Davis put herself in this position for ridicule.
BRUCE! I’m so happy you dropped by! Thanks for your story, and your heart.
You should have mentioned not only does the bible talk about divorce, but that she has been married FOUR times. But somehow same-sex marriage bothers her conscience…
This woman is refusing to allow a couples decision to marry when it does not affect her life personally. She is not the ultimate judge, she should do her job and reserve her religious views and apply them to her own life, not punish others. That is ridiculous. People of this country put their nose in other people’s business and then cry when some one has something to say.
It is her job to do this, if she can not step down, she is not there to make laws only to do her job.
The Bible does have a whole lot to say about what marriage is and it also has a lot to say about homosexuality. Why would God condone a homosexual marriage since God said homosexuality is a sin? I love too how people love to dig dirt up on her and try to smear her as a hypocrite. Wonder how many of you have some skeletons in your closet? Nobody is perfect. Not me and not you. Jesus don’t save perfect people, he saves sinners.
Why is it though that HER sin (per the Old Testament) is okay, because it happened before she turned her life to Christ, but a gay person’s sin is not okay, even if they do it before they get saved ?
Also, could you please provide me with chapter/verse where God (or even just one of the people who wrote a book in the bible) admonishes Christians to preform law enforcement duties on behalf of God ? And where it says it’s okay to disobey those who have the rule over you if you feel that God doesn’t like what they’re doing ?
@ Jason Bowman…..the only words that are possibly, truly God’s are those in the 10 Commandments and funnily enough there are none there addressing homosexuality. Perhaps some intelligent, observant and perceptive Christians may examine the issue and walk away with the understanding that homosexuality exists in all species, and that our Creator used homosexuality as a means of population control…..there has never been a time when this was “a choice”…….meanwhile Jesus weeps for his fan club’s members ignorance and bigotry, while waiting for this day to arrive.
Lev. 20:13 “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” This is just one of many instances where the Bible mentions homosexuality. As Christians, we are taught to love despite their sin. We all sin. The issue is with those who believe their sexuality is not a sin when it clearly is. I admit to and ask for forgiveness of my sins and try to do better each day and not repeat that same sin.
Are people still going on websites and just quoting Leviticus as a proof of “Being gay is an abomination?” It’s not even the thought behind an act like this that seems so archaic… Even the act of quoting Leviticus as a comment online seems like seeing a dinosaur walking around. A living fossil. An endangered species, scared out of it’s mind at a changing world….
http://www.afa.net/the-stand/christian-persecution/clerk-the-only-one-obeying-the-law/
I just pulled a muscle rolling my eyes at that article, Paula. Kindly take that garbage elsewhere….
If God is so against Gays why did he make me and many others gay? And don’t say we chose to be this way… who in their right mind would choose to be so hated and disrepected by so many people like you! So many so called Christians are so against our life style that you go as far to get us abolished and say we should be put to death but yet your GOD loves us all… yes I know all about the bible and have read the bible after all I was broght up as a Christian!!!
I’m sorry, Lee. I believe a lot of these people honestly don’t know any better…. I know that’s no excuse. But the tide is changing, and human consciousness is moving forward…. I just wish Christians weren’t always the last ones to get the memo.
If you’re ever in Nashville, I’ve got a really cool Church for you to visit. https://theboeskool.com/2015/01/19/what-happened-when-my-church-decided-to-start-marrying-gay-people/
Lee, what you and so many others seem to overlook, is that there is a devil and demons and their job, regarding homosexuality, is to convince you that you were born this way. There are, however, perverse spirits, seducing spirits, lying spirits, deceiving spirits, etc. Somewhere in your and every gays life, they have entered in and turned what God created, sex between a man and a woman in marriage, into a perverse act.
I don’t hate anyone, including gays, but we’re are commanded to tell the truth, but to tell it in love. Sadly that’s not happening with some Christians. I pray daily for gays souls, because God does love you, but He wants you to live a godly life and not turn blindly away from the scriptures and lose your soul.
Isaiah 3:9 shows clearly about the sin of sodomy. “The look on their countenance witnesses against them and they declare their SIN as SODOM. They don’t hide it. Woe to their soul! For they have brought evil upon themselves.” This speaks of our present day gay culture.
There is a clear warning in Jude, verse 7. “As SODOM and GOMORRAH, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having GIVEN THEMSELVES OVER TO SEXUAL IMMORALITY AND GONE AFTER STRANGE FLESH, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” This is in the New Testament and a clear warning.
Please Lee, seek your heart and seek God to help you to overcome. He loves you and is waiting to reach out to you.
Look kids, a dinosaur!
Wow! This author is … wow. It’s been a long time since I’ve come across an author who is this immature. And he’s supposed to be a Christian?
God’s Word doesn’t change because society does. It stays the same, just as He does. Why are you a Christian if you don’t believe in His Word? That’s like being a Jew and not believing the Torah, or a Muslim and not believing Qur’an. You don’t HAVE to believe in Christ. Why not humanitarianism? It certainly seems as though you adore people. That might be right up your alley, lol.
God allowed each of us to be tempted in certain ways, so in a sense we are born this way. But, He told us that we are never tempted more than we can bear – there is always a way of escape. I believe these sins/temptations are designed to teach us to overcome our sinful desires and trust God to give us what we truly need. We must always resist our sinful desires. We will fail often, but we must keep trying to resist.
This is NOT religious freedom and this horseshit has gone on long enough
THIS is tyranny.
THIS is theocracy.
THIS is what a dictatorship looks like.
This is one person, one religion, deciding what others can and cannot do by fiat. This, right here is precisely what the Founders of this country intended to prevent. This. Right here. No more. No less.
This woman is not exercising her rights, she is using the power of government to impose her will on others and to deny her fellow citizens their legal and constitutional rights.
She took the job voluntarily. It was not forced upon her. She was not conscripted and impressed against her will into service. She swore an oath to uphold the law, likely before her God. Religious freedom means she has the right to resign in protest. Freedom of speech means she has the right to resign in protest. If she opposes gay marriage, she has every right not to get gay married. But that is the extent of her freedom, her rights do NOT include the right to deny others theirs. Period. End of conversation, there is NO gray area.
Her position is a legal contract between government and citizens. God has not one damned thing to do with it.
God has all to do with it he gives you every breath you take if you parents had been Gay would you wouldn’t be here I think it should be taken into consideration that this is a new law and if you don’t believe in Gay marriage you should have to issue licenses let the next one who takes office be aware of the new law before running for office
No, even better, if your religious beliefs keep you from properly fulfilling your duties as a public servant, (including politicians), let’s make it law that only atheists can hold any form of public office. That way we who are able to actually exhibit the art of critical thinking will no longer have to deal with those of you that can’t trying to force people into doing their bidding. If she doesn’t want to do the job as it’s required by law, she needs to be tossed out on her ass, Case closed.
I don’t believe in god, the bible, or any & every other form of religion, & yet I have to put up with you bible thumpers in my face all the time, so you should have to put up with the law of the land being enforced.
Just for the record, I am 100% straight & happily married to my wife, I just happen to be intelligent enough to believe in the same human rights for everyone.
BTW, if you’re unable to reply with punctuation & reasonable well thought & well written comments, then please leave the debate to those of us who can.
MarkM, I wish I had written your comment above. It is perfect.
MarkM, I was referring to your comment that begins “This is NOT religious freedom…”
MarkM, I really want you to be the MarkM I know. That was priceless.
When she took the it didnt have anything to say about this issue and man changed the law!!! this is only happened since there is a issue was through the courts not the Congress!!!
When you take a job, does that mean whatever the job description is when you started is set in stone and cannot be changed whatsoever ?
I do feel that it’s wrong for our government to people in such a state of having to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples you stated the the Bible doesn’t speak of it Bible says one man one woman it’s an abomination in the eyes of of God and it’s speaks of Adam and eve not Adam and Steve I stand behind Kim Davis in front of her and on both sides it’s God or Gay I choose God stand your grounds Kim I live you for standing for religious freedom and so does God
Marita, you need to grow a comma.
Fuchsia you,,,,,,,,,
Fuchsia you,,,,,,,,,up your ass,,,,,,,,,,
Interesting point…
I wish our county clerk had the back bone this women has. She was voted Ito do a job. And before same sex marriage became legal., by the Supreme Court, whom bye the way doesn’t have the right to make law, the constitution says Supreme Court is suppose to enforce law. So in my book she is right they are wrong.
Is the title of your book “Things That Don’t Make Sense, But I Believe Anyway?”
C’mon now, Chris, that’s a bit ironic, isn’t it?
This is for you, David: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
fuchsia you??? hahahhahaah!!! i’m dying!!! hahahahah! the point is, she does have a job to do as clerk. if she feels as though she cannot fulfill the duties of said job without violating her religious views, she should ask for a transfer to a different department or find another job. it’s not that i am in support of or in opposition of gay marriage here. i am in support of logic, common sense, and kindness without judgment of others’ beliefs, and i believe that she should find another job. kudos to her for having the sack to stand up for her beliefs; can you imagine the personal backlash she has faced? i mean, if you’re going to stand up for something, do it. this lady certainly has. it’s this type of issue that gives Christians a bad reputation. we aren’t all hypocrites. some of us genuinely try to exemplify the kindness of Jesus in our every interaction with people. and regardless of whatever religious affiliation we choose or choose not to have, it can be difficult to be kind to everyone (especially when someone cuts you off in traffic and then drives 25 in a 35 because she is applying her mascara, mouth agape). some of us really just try to love others as God loved us; we aren’t all hypocrites, bigots, or zealots who can’t properly utilize punctuation 😉
if you’re not a Christian and you don’t believe in God, that is your choice. it doesn’t mean that we can’t be kind to one another; or at least, it shouldn’t mean that! regardless of what my religion tells me is right and wrong (without regard to any particular chapter or verse), i believe that the citizens of this world who do not believe as i believe shouldn’t be forced to conform to the laws of my religion. if our nation was founded on beliefs of the flying spaghetti monster, but i wished to remain true to my Christian faith, i would be terribly hurt and irate if the FSM dictated who could or could not be on my health insurance policy. citizens of this country are supposed to have religious freedom; i.e. if we want to be Christian, we can! if we want to be Jewish, we can! if we want to be Muslim, we can! if we want to be free of religious affiliation, we can! i digress…if her duties include the issuance of marriage licenses, she should do what she can do to either re-structure her job description so she doesn’t have to issue the licenses or she should find another job. she obviously has tenacity! let’s just be kind to one another, okay?
I agree with the author. It really comes down to performing the duties of the office. I live in Lexington, KY about 40 miles from where this is happening. Most people agree Kim Davis should be removed. I think about this in my own work situation. I am a medical rep. My company develops products to help patients with a particular disease state. As a Christian if they started manufacturing a drug/product that went against my belief system then the obvious choice is to find another position. It is not my right under the religious freedom act to petition my employer to not sell the product. This area is part of eastern Ky where there is severe economic depression with the loss of many coal jobs. My guess is Kim Davis does not have a back up plan to make $80,000.
I would assume this is why she is not stepping down.
very nice post
And how many said she was right, I’m not saying she is but please give both sides of the response
he Supreme Court cannot and did not make a law. They only made a ruling on a law. Congress makes the laws. Because Congress has made no law allowing for same-sex marriage, Kim does not have the Constitutional authority to issue a marriage license to homosexual couples.
I’ve encountered this idea a few places now, Rod, and I want to clear up your misconception. People are passing along this idea that the SCOTUS decision was some sort of unconstitutional overreach, and that we shouldn’t have to follow an “unconstitutional” law. You are only correct about the fact that the Supreme Court did not make a law with their decision…. They clarified an existing law. The ruled on an existing law (the 14th Amendment), and ruled that equal protection included people who are gay.
Your line of reasoning would be like insisting that women don’t deserve equal rights because the Constitution read “all MEN are created equal.” You are completely and totally wrong. Sorry. There doesn’t need to be shame in it–I’ve been completely and totally wrong many times. Just admit it, change your mind, and move on….
Here you go, Rod…. Written just for you: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I would like to first clear up the what you say on the bible. First the word of G-d does not say that drinking alcohol is a sin. Getting drunk is. If it were? all believers should refuse to participate in sin! Not all do this though! Because they are afraid loosing their job. Or something else their fear of man is greater than there fear of G-d. Then there are those who believe they no longer have to obey G-d law because they are saved they have been deceive Then there is the part about obeying the Law of the Land this true we must obey the laws of the land unless they go against G-ds Law. We must stand and not go against G-ds Laws. Now the definition of Marriage in the bible in not Mans definition. If you have sex we anyone you have been Married so how ever many times you have had sex with different People that is how many times you have been married. So biblically homosexuals who are actively having sex and are already Married. All sex outside of Marriage is a sin. Let’s look at religious freedom is defined as the government not prohibiting the free exercise of ones religion the government of the USA cannot interfere or make laws that prohibit religions from do just that. Our founding fathers made one mistake that was declaring who the one true G-d. They did not want the government to tell them how to worship the one true G-d this was there intent. So the law allowing homosexual to Marry and forcing Christians or Jews to participate goes against the amendment of religious freedom. Now if the government were not forcing this woman to disobey G-d but they are. In order to understand Hypocrisy concerning Christians you must understand the we Believe that we are not perfect and we all have sinned and stealing or lie or sex outside of marriage whether straight or homosexual is equal sin to G-d. We also believe that Jesus the Messiah died on the cross for us so we can receive forgiveness of sin. So if we sinned in the pass we get a clean slate and G-d forgets those sins we have committed. The key thing though is we must repent of our sins (turn away from our sins) this does not always happen overnight and our ability to repent usually coincides with our relationship with G-d if we have a true conversion we will sin Less and Less. Total repentance should be every believers goal. G-d says if we do not tell someone they are in sin that if they go to hell we will be held accountable to G-d. In general if a homosexual repents and turn away then they are good to go with G-d. That may take a process of time if one believes in Messiah. Sin hurts us personally it’s like telling a child do not put your hand in the fire because you will get burned. G-d does not want us to suffer the consequences of sin Jesus came to clean us up so we do not sin. Even if you do not believe that there is a consequence to your sin there is. Even if you do not believe there is heaven or Hell there is. So if you are a believer stop sinning and repent and if your not a believer Jesus did come to die for you to give you eternal life and He will help you not sin against G-d and yourself which sexual sin hurts you more than anyone else.
The Supreme Court DID NOT and CANNO create laws. So what law is she not obeying considering the law says she can only issue a license to the female
Here you go, Roger. I hope this explains it: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
This article is not even close to a biblical Christian Perspective! Sounds like an extremely liberal perspective to me! As Huckabee and many others others have pointed out: “The Supreme Court cannot and did not make a law. They only made a ruling on a law. Congress makes the laws. Because Congress has made no law allowing for same-sex marriage, Kim does not have the Constitutional authority to issue a marriage license to homosexual couples.” The Supreme Court specifically stated that the gay marriage ruling should not infringe on people’s religious freedoms or the right to follow their convictions! Oh, and Kim is a Democrat by the way- something the media is hiding!
This IS a matter of religious freedom and saying she should just quit her job is ridiculous- especially since countless other occupations are also affected by this ruling- florists, bakeries, photographers, videographers, pastors, etc- all being targeted and sued by the militant LGBT movement instead of just going to any of the countless others that will gladly support their marriage.
Using your arguments, Obama must immediately step down since he refuses to enforce immigration laws!!!!!!
This is ESPECIALLY for you, Mike: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
All of you Might want to read this. There has been no law written the supreme Court cannot make a Law. This is been a problem in America for along time so she is not breaking any law. http://www.westernjournalism.com/mike-huckabee-brings-up-the-one-thing-about-kim-davis-no-ones-talking-about-but-should-be/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WesternJournalism&utm_content=2015-09-02
Just so you know, you don’t know what you’re talking about: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Apparently even people who reject the Word of God can claim a “Christian perspective”. Who knew?
I love it when people like you comment, Josh. It used to bug me, but now I wear your brand of close-minded, critical Christian comments like a badge of honor.
You honor me with your flippant sarcasm. I am honored. 🙂
Your ability to take these comments with such a soft heart and hard skin baffles me. It is truly something I respect in you.
I wish this comment had a “like” button. Stuart is right – I really admire your ability to take this stuff with a good sense of humor.
Just to echo what other people are saying, this is not from a Christian Perspective.
Actually I know Chris and he is a beautiful Christian man who genuinely wants to see the God’s love, found in Jesus witnessed to all peoples everywhere. So, yes, it IS from a Christian perspective. Maybe just not your Christian perspective. Christianity is a broad swath of religious fabric that covers a great many disagreements and discussions. Also, he can grow a mean beard. That’s just extra.
This post is so wrong.
1)Number one is so dumb obviously if you work at restaurant and they just suddenly started selling alcohol and you don’t believe in it then you get a New job and you don’t go against what you believe in.
2) I dont know what bible this person reads but my bible says (thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination) Leviticus 18:22
3) she nor her supporters are confused about anything. Whoever wrote this post confused
And needs to read the bible.
4) the reason she is not stepping down is because she is standing up for what she believes in.
I’m so sick of this all the gays can stand up for gay rights what they believe in and no one can say anything but as soon as a straight person stands up for their rights their “hating on gays” and were the wrong ones. Well let Me tell you there is a whole lot more believers like Kim and we will rise together to stand up for our God and we believe in.
Actually, point one is exactly what you said.
Point two was about issuing a marriage license not about the engaging in same sex coitus.
Point three… well, I was confused by your point 3 because it seemed to lack the the punctuation and even a few words for me to make sense of it.
Point 4, stepping down would be an excellent way to stand up for her beliefs… see point one.
Finally, I think you meant to write, “I’m so sick of all this(Peroid) All the gays can stand up for gay rights (what they believe in) and no one can say anything but ….stand up for their rights THEY’RE “hating on gays” and WE’RE? the wrong ones. Well, let me tell you, there ARE many believers like Kim and we will rise together to stand up for our God in whom we believe. I could be wrong.
Actually the bible does speak against gay marriage in several parts of the bible
If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13 KJV
Its wrong period. You people need to get in to your bibles. Read the story of Solomon and gomora.
HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN!! AND WHEN ALL THESE HOMOSEXUALS ARE BURNING IN HELL THEY’LL FIND OUT!
Yes, read your story of “Solomon and gomorra.” Hahaha!! (Isn’t that a Japanese lizard monster?)
Priceless.
For the people keep bringing up mixed linen and such, we live in the New Testament, and before you say it, yes there is scripture in the New Testament on homosexuality. Idk what Christian in their right mind would write this? I was raised Apostolic, I love everyone, regaurdless if your gay or what. Our Bible tells us to love the sinner and hate the sin. That’s what I practice. It also tells us not bring up other people’s past mistakes that have been forgiven! We have been taught that in the last days we will be persecuted and hated, and this is what is happening. She had that job BEFORE same-sex marriage was legal, she shouldn’t have to bend to accomodate others, when she took that oath it was for any man and woman who wanted to be joined in marriage. Also, she shouldn’t step down because she is making a stand for her religious beliefs! Prayers for you Kim Davis
Anyone can pick and choose which passages of the Bible they want to believe or discredit, even those who do not believe the Bible is really the Word of God. The fact is that while the Old Testament is the old law, it still holds many principles that we can apply today. God does not change His mind on what is moral and immoral. He is the same “yesterday, today, and forever.” What is immoral in the Old Testament is immoral in the New Testament and in modern society We do not just throw it out like it doesn’t apply anymore. Are we under the law anymore? No, we have grace through Jesus Christ. The Old Testament laws were set up by God before Jesus came to earth because Jesus’ blood had not been shed yet. The laws were mostly guidelines for how to live (not required for salvation); the dietary laws were specifically for the Israelite people. And yes, there are still consequences for disobedience and wickedness! However, since Christ died on the cross, we are not saved through works (laws) but through the blood He shed for us. We have grace to make decisions based on the Word of God. However, we can still learn from principles in the Old Testament.
Leviticus does not have a monopoly on verses against homosexuality. The New Testament reaffirms God’s feelings on the issue several times.
Romans 1:27-28, 32: “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;…Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
Jude 7: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”
I Corinthians 6:9-10: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, no adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Now we can claim that Ms. Davis’ divorces would count her out of heaven, as well, based on these verses. First of all, divorce is allowed only in the case of marital unfaithfulness (definitely not God’s choice, but allowed – try to work things out first if at all possible). Honestly, we cannot know the circumstances behind her past choices, so it is unjust to use them against her. Secondly, even if they were against God’s Word, she has since then been saved and is forgiven. I Corinthians 6 continues as follows:
“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God” (v.11).
Once washed in the blood of Christ, we are clean. Our sins are forgiven! If God can forgive, then why can’t we? He says that if we cannot forgive others their trespasses, then we have no right to expect that He will forgive us our trespasses. Those who repent and turn from their sinful ways before God will enjoy heaven one day. Those who continually laugh in His face and continue in their sin are condemned. It breaks my heart that some would choose to push God away just so they can indulge their unnatural, lustful desires. I pray for these people to see Christ’s love and sacrifice, to turn from their sin, and to accept everything that Jesus has to offer. It is also upsetting that Christians cannot stand up for what God says is explicitly wrong anymore without fear of reproof or attack from the world and “Christians” alike.
As far as the legality of it, she is not bullying anyone or discriminating against anyone. Everyone’s rights are protected under the Constitution as long as they are law-abiding citizens of this country. There is no need for the Federal government to get involved in this issue. Same sex couples’ rights are already protected; we do not need to “interpret” the law in this case. There needs to be a respect from both sides. While Christians should not agree with or endorse homosexuality, we should also not bash those who embrace that lifestyle with hatefulness and judgment that is not rightfully ours (i.e. Westboro Baptist Church has it COMPLETELY wrong!). We should love them (while not compromising our own consciences and God-given convictions, of course) and try to help them see how their lifestyle is leading them down the road to eternal separation from God without making them feel inferior in any way. Love does not mean acceptance; sometimes it means telling someone they are wrong. However, homosexuals should also practice the tolerance they claim and respect the beliefs of those who do not agree with them. It is not a personal attack against them for someone to disagree with them.
Whether or not she should resign from her job is between her and God. She cannot be fired, but she can be impeached. It may be the decision of the government of Kentucky to take this route; again, that is a state’s right. If so, Ms. Davis can stand proud in the fact that she did not compromise her beliefs, even if it costs her her job, and God will honor her for that. I support her decision, and I am praying for her during this time.
Wow. I could not have said this better myself. This is, by far, the best comment I’ve read here. I officially, do not have to read any further. Bless you, sister.
Just to inform you, the bible does state that it’s an abomination for man to lay with man or woman with woman. If you don’t believe me look it up online where it is then open your bible. Everyone takes things wrong and gets offended if someone doesn’t believe like they do and say it’s hate when someone doesn’t agree with same sex marriage. I would rather stand with God and be judged by people rather than stand with people and be judged by God.
But it does not say anywhere that they cannot be forgiven for it, if you turn from your sin God will forgive you.
I accept and love everyone whether I agree with them or not but you can’t continue in sin and go to heaven.
The problem with your logic is. “What law was past by Congress that gives homosexuals the right to marry. Answer: No law was passed. So in retrospect Kim Davis is right. May I point out she is a Democrat. The supreme court only made a decision. They do not create laws. They are unelected officials. So all the writing you did was a waste and in vain.
You’ve been had, Rob: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Anyone who opposes gay marriage for ANY freaking reason I am 1000% behind! Sodomy is the plague of this country and it runs deep! They fly their flags but they won’t tell you they are pedophiles! A boy gets molested when he’s 6 by a 12 year old who was molested by a 16 yr old who was molested by his 21 yr old uncle and so on… He can’t cope he is not mature enough to understand what just happened and seeing children are so easily swayed he thinks that’s what it should be but somehow feels he’s wrong for thinking that and sexual confusion begins and the cycle continues! Go to a gay bar and ask! I dare you!!! how old the youngest is they’ve been with! Average age is 6-12 by adult men! My stomach turned that I had to have a talk with my son so he knows what’s ok and what’s not! The whole whole is perverted and the madness won’t stop unless someone takes a stand to protect the children!!!
Oh my God. That was just incredible. I couldn’t have written something that offensive if I had all day to plan. Astounding.
Is Grace actually your name, or is it just your handle when going online and spreading the “Good News?”
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry….
wow.
Definitely cry, Chris. This was the most blatant example of bigotry and stupidity I’ve seen in this whole debate. The saddest thing about it? This idiot is actually the mother or father of a child. Some people should not be allowed to procreate.
Kathy I’m right. Check it yourself! You go ahead and call me names and say I’m a bigot! Im just fine with that!!! I don’t trust my kids with very many people because I prefer they remain innocent and have a normal childhood. Oh and if I’m a bigot so are you! Opinions go both ways woman! I am so sick and tired of people persecuting those who believe in one man one woman because our opinions differ! You want equal rights?!? Stop complaining about me! I have just as much right to an opinion as anyone! I WILL not apologize for my stance!!! Have a nice life!
@Grace, I know everything I say to you will fall on deaf ears, but my conscience won’t let me walk away from this. How exactly are you being persecuted? No one is trying to force you to marry someone of the same sex. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, but being a bigot and knowing it, being proud of it… just wow. And by the way, homosexuality and pedophilia are two very different things. Look it up and educate yourself. Your paranoia and bigotry might be the worst I have ever seen. What in the world made you so bitter and nasty? Your poor, poor kids.
#1 As a cashier for 2 different groceries stores I have told them about my conviction against alcohol and both employers we’re completely understanding and worked with me on this matter. I did not have to scan alcohol a supervisor came over and did it for me. And they NEVER threatened to fire me. The thought never crossed their mind. So that argument is false!
#2 I can tell you don’t read your Bible because it does refer to homosexuality as Sodomy. In the book of Genesis Chapter 13. If God saw nothing wrong with it He would not have destroyed an entire city for it. And there are a slew of references concerning homosexuality. Side note what media isn’t telling people is that all those divorces happened before she started going to church. So would like me to exploit bad decisions that you made in the past and that you deeply regret and put it all over the world for people to see???
#3 Kim Davis has every right to believe like she’s does. And if she is thrown in jail then law was not upholden, and that is to protect her religious freedom.
#4 Stop using words you don’t know the meaning to. It’s not extortion it’s her right. Kim has performed all her duties as a clerk! The law was not even made by congress and they have the power to make laws. So thus the law made unconstitutionally.
You people are the real hypocrites. You’re telling Kim Davis to stop pushing her on people but I wonder how the law was even made. Hmmmm by a bunch of people pushing their beliefs on others. Hypocrisy at it’s best.
Ezekiel explains that Sodom’s sin was that “She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” Not gay sex. Inhospitably and being unkind to the alien.
What are your thoughts on immigration? 🙂
Not exactly sure what Bible you read. And if that was all they why in the world would God completely destroy a whole city for that? Stop quoting the bible when you obviously don’t know what’s in it.
Boeskool, you gotta take the story we’ve been told all these years incorrectly!!! Don’t go ACTUALLY reading the bible and figuring it out.
“Why in the world would God completely destroy a whole city for that?” The “that” in your question is the act of not taking care of people who need it, being selfish with your resources, and not being welcoming to people from outside your community.
This is the power of the “Sodom & Gomorrah” story you and I grew up with in America. We imagine a God who would RIGHTLY destroy and kill a whole city over same sex relations, but never imagine a God who would get angry about not taking care of the poor. Or being inhospitable to aliens. And then you can believe what you MOST CERTAINLY believe politically without any cognitive dissonance. All the while, never even considering the fact that the one who the story says was righteous enough to get saved (Lot) was also the one who said, “Here, rape my daughters instead.”
And we wonder why there is so much misogyny in the Church….
You are correct in that homosexuality was not the only reason that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Each of the things you listed was definitely a contributing factor. However, the bible does state homosexuality was being practiced there and was one of the reasons God was angry with the people.
In Genesis 19 we find the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The bible says, “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.”
That word “know” means to have sex with. So here we see that homosexuality is practiced.
Now, we know that this was wrong in God’s eyes because He had Moses write in the book of Leviticus, chapter eighteen, verse twenty-two, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
So, in the old testament it was wrong. God had already set that standard.
We also know that homosexuality was still considered wrong even after Jesus ascended back into Heaven because, in Romans, chapter one, Paul writes, “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Throwing each of our own personal opinions here aside, let’s consider these verses carefully. I don’t care if you are pro homosexuality or against it. I hope we can all at least agree that the Bible’s stand is that it is wrong.
If we can agree on that at least, then we can go from there and decide whether we want to believe the Bible or not.
Still, the fact stands undeniable: the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong. In denying this, you would not be arguing with me or anyone else. You would be arguing with the Bible itself.
The only thing that bothers me about this whole KIM DAVIS thing, is that it seems to me that gay couples are going out of their way just to go to this clerk, just to cause MORE controversy. She needs to find another job, if she can’t DO HER JOB, and some gay couples who really want to be married, why not go to a clerk that is DOING THEIR JOB, instead of looking for THEIR 15 minutes of fame as well.
This article is not a Christian opinion, nor a logical point of view!
Courts cannot make or change laws, purely based on what the constitution says about that.
The constitution is not old and is not outdated but it is still the best platform for any country to this day!
The constitution protects our freedom against anyone or anything meaning no one is above the law
Except when a law is changed by unlawful and unconstitutional standard of practice!
I can surely say if we want to bring the bible into this issue
From everything I have read from New and Old Testament, Gay marriage is against God!
I believe what the bible says and I’ve studied quite hard and the Holy Spirit Guides me, I cannot stand by and
Here you go, Easton:https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I would like to respond to the four points of this article in order to show the author his thinking is the one in error.
Logic: You equate selling alcohol to homosexual marriage. While the Bible does not say it is a sin to drink alcohol, it does say it is a sin to be “a drunkard.” This implies to be drunk, probably on a regular basis. Ephesians 5:18 warns the readers not to be drunk with wine because it leads to sin… People do all sorts of things under the influence of alcohol they would not normally do while sober. Here, it is not drinking the wine that is the sin, but having too much, leading to poor behavior choices which is condemned. Another passage, which I will quote a little later on, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, states “drunkards” among the list of sinners who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
The reason this is not an equal parallel is because one who buys wine or other alcoholic beverages cannot be assumed to be a drunk; they are merely buying a drink, and even a good bartender will deny a person who has become overly drunk one more drink. For those who are trying to obtain a marriage licenses, the natural and correct assumption is that they will be engaging in, hopefully a monogamous sexual relationship, after all, that is a part of marriage. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is wrong. It is in the passage above in 1 Cor. 6:9-11, but also in the following passages:Lev. 18:22, 20:13; Rom. 1:26-27; Mark 10:6-9 (this passage talks about God creating man and woman to be together); Jude 1:7. These are just a few. I left out many for space and time consideration. The conclusion here is that drinking wine is not something God has said no to. The same cannot be said of homosexuality.
Hypocrisy: Your argument here is that there is nothing in the bible concerning homosexual marriages. While you are right in one respect, ban on homosexual marriages is implied from the above when God clearly calls homosexuality a sin. If God condemns homosexuality, the reason Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed in Gen. 18-19, and the Levitical Law (see previous passages in Leviticus) the logical conclusion is that God does not endorse homosexual marriages. He has created first man, then woman (because no suitable companion was found throughout nature) to be partnered/ married. See Gen. 1:27 and 2: 18-24. There is no hypocrisy in this first half of your argument. She is following her beliefs.
As to the second part of the argument, I believe you are talking about the time that Jesus said to give to Caesar the things that belong to Caesar, and what belongs to God, God. This passage is found in Mark 12:17. There are also parallel passages in at least one other Gospel. The first seven verses in Romans 13 also says the same. Yes, government was instituted by God and we are to obey the laws where we live. Jesus was actually affirming that taxes are to be paid to support the government. However; this does not apply for two reasons. First, there is an overriding principle in the Bible that is used in Acts. The second time the disciples, at least Peter, is brought in before the Sanhedrin, a governing group over the Jews, they are told not to preach about Jesus. Acts 5:29 is a statement given by Peter. He says he will obey God over man. The rule here is that whenever there are conflicts between the laws of man and God’s laws, God’s Laws are the laws observed, not man’s. Secondly, the Supreme Court only passed down a ruling to strike down marriage between man and woman as only legitimate marriage, and that it is okay for States to issue marriage licenses for gay couples. However; no law was written saying they HAD to issue such licenses. Since, as of this moment, there are no laws, only a judgment that there CAN be futures laws to such, she has not broken any law. Even if there were such laws, she has not been a hypocrite by refusing to issue the license. She is continuing to obey God’s laws.
Confusion: I am afraid the confusion here is what you call persecution! Persecution is: being thrown in jail for nothing other than your beliefs or skin color; for being denied wages for a job done on the basis of your beliefs or skin color (this could also be called slavery); for being killed for no other reason other than because of your race or beliefs. Persecution is NOT being told no! Persecution would actually her being fined or jailed BECAUSE THERE IS NO NEW LAW! She in fact would be fined or jailed only because of her beliefs because she would not be breaking any standing laws! Being told no is also not bullying! I am sorry if it feels that way, but it is not the case. Are parents bullies because they have to say no to their children once in a while? This argument is hyperbole at best.
Lastly, Integrity: Well, as pointed out previously, since no new law has been put in place, just an “okay” from the Supreme Court to issue those licenses, I say her integrity is still intact. She is sticking by her oath to uphold the law that she was elected to follow. She is also following biblical precepts and her firmly held beliefs that encouraging people to continue to sin by issuing those licenses to same sex couples is in violation of the greater Law of God. Ultimately, it is God’s Law that will condemn, not a law made up by a group of men and women.
I know this have been far longer than even I anticipated. I do hope this will be read carefully, and considered. I do apologize for the awkward sentence or two. Earlier I said I would give the context of 1Cor. 6:9-11, so here it is, copied from the NIV. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
Ms Davis is 100% correct in her stance, you, my fellow person, are the one whose logic and biblical knowledge are flawed and your ideas, confused.
Mega Dittos!
Amen and well said!
You are wrong in the fact that she is doing her job. She is also refusing to issue licenses to non gay couples as well. I don’t believe that she is being persecuted at all. This is of her own choosing. She was given the option to not go to jail and allow her staff to issue the licenses to the couples, all of them including the strait couples but she refused. She would not have had to do anything against her moral judgement.So to say that she is breaking no laws is absurd. There are laws in place that say she must issue to at least the strait couples. I personally don’t care about gay marriage or strait marriage. I am happily married and live my life according to my beliefs. I am a Christian, but I feel god gave us the right to choose our own sins and we will all pay the price for those sins in the end. God never gave me the right to dominate over someone else and choose their path for them. That is persecution for her to think she can choose someone else’s sin. Homosexuality is a sin in the bible, I will not deny that fact, but so are a whole list of others that people do on a daily basis. God taught his people to minister to people that we feel have taken the wrong path not persecute them, but to try to bring them to the path of salvation. This is not done by taking their rights away, it is accomplished by inviting them to their church and letting them hear the word of god from another perspective. However most Christians want to turn their back on the sinner, call them names and throw stones. Some of those people may have the holy spirt in them and to turn your back on them is to turn your back on god. Most of the so called Christians in our selfish, hateful world will find themselves burning right along with all those people they condemned. PS If I was placed in the same scenario as Kim Davis, I don’t think I would issue the license either, however I would not continue to sit there and break my oath, that I took under god, keep collecting the salary and refuse to do the job I was appointed to do, I would leave and do something else. Something that did not make me feel morally irresponsible. For those who say the money is of no meaning to her is crazy. There is no other reason for her to fight this beside they money. Oh yeah except the fame she has received and the status of martyr that the society is placing her in. A martyr are the Christians that are having their heads cut off for refusing to denounce Jesus Christ. Not this woman sitting in her jail cell, collecting her salary, and listening to people outside chant her name.
God let same sex marriage happen.
Since you refer to “God” as being the permissive one hear. Perhaps it would do you well to Read His Word. Particularly, the Book of Romans and the 2nd Chapter. You are somewhat correct. Please see vs 24-32. The context reveals the content. Pretty simple.
Please don’t play the “hate” card. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Sorry about the misspell “hear” I know it is “here”. Mistype.
When St. Peter and the apostles were ordered by the leaders of the Jews not to teach in the name of Jesus, they replied, “We must obey God rather than men…” Kim Davis is obeying God by following her conscience. Besides that, the Supreme Court does not have the authority to create laws–they can only issue an opinion, not create law. It is Congress that can pass laws. And the federal government, according to the Constitution, has not been given jurisdiction over marriage–that comes under state law.
The bible may not say so much about same sex marriage but homosexuality is brought up in many places in the bible. Such as Leviticus 18:22 ; Leviticus 20:13 ; 1Corinthians 6:9, 10. And yes while christians are agaisnt homosexuality they are not against the people themselves. (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” Jehovh’s Witnesses are loving towards all because it is not up to us to judge anyone. That job was left to Jesus. (John 5:22, 23) ~JW.ORG
Great article, Chris. But inevitable that people ignore your main points and the discussion devolve into name-calling and debates over morality. Props on getting featured on Huffington Post again!
Thanks Jerome.
What the bible does state is that Marriage is between 1 MAN and 1 WOMAN! So that tells a lot about what God feels about same sex marriages! If you have read your bible then you know of Sodom and Gomorrah!
But Laura, what if someone doesn’t believe in the bible? I don’t, but I’m no less American than you are, and probably more so since my family has been here for hundreds of years, unless you are Native American. This is not a theocracy. I don’t believe in your fictional book of stories. So why should government be giving marriage licenses based on your book? Sodom and Gomorrah is a made up story, and even if you believe it to be true, that doesn’t make it so.
The Bible says some other things about marriage too, like one man, one woman, and concubines or one man and lots of women.
you brought up Sodom an Gomorrah God destroyed those 2 city because of the sinful ways of those 2 cities they were men laying men an woman laying with a woman it is wrong and a abomination unto God
live by Gods laws Not mans law
Since the Supreme Courts decision was given it did not become a law just their opinion on a law. There is no law in KY that mandates her to give licenses to homosexual couples.
For you, John: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I will pray for you and all you so called Christians that go along with anything. The bible is clear on this subject. Pray then read it. God will let you know how he feels about same sex, marriage and sex.
“Sex, Marriage, and Sex” would be a good name for an album.
Thank you for praying for me, Nenris. And I’ll talk to my cat for you. And we’ll both get the same result.
Possibly a little judgmental? I’m referring to the blog itself. This back and forth could go on indefinitely.
You are an idiot. Go and study your Bible and then maybe you could write a correct blog.
Thanks for the feedback, Angela! I’m sure you are a really nice person who is trying your hardest to get it right…. Even though we disagree.
Angela, you are in danger of hell fire for calling Chris an idiot. Read Matthew 5:22.
I think you are the one confused. The NT may not specifically say same sex marriage is a sin, but it is clear that same sex relationships are a sin. People who say she is judging are also judging her for her personal convictions.
Also don’t be ignorant. Jesus isn’t JUST about love, there are plenty of layers . But he is about love FIRST.
As you say LOGIC – Well in the Bible it defines marriage as a union between a man and a women Jesus himself attended a wedding so that is logical.
As you say HYPOCRISY – It stands to reason that the LBGTA community does not want to have there ideas about whatever the feel is right for them, not taking it away, instead they are trying to re-difine my Christian bible why do they not seek other forms to commit non-biblical relations so who is the HYPOCRITE.
As you say CONFUSION – the only people confused are those that try to redefine something that is already perfect the Bible. No one asked or forced you to be christian it is a choice.
As you say INTEGRITY – I am sure she has a very good work ethic and yes she has the law of religious freedom not to be persecuted for her beliefs who is standing for her?
This is wrong the bible states that a man and a man shouldn’t lay together and a woman and woman shouldn’t lay together. What happened to Sodom and gamora it got burnt to the ground and turned to ash because of the sin and people being with the same sex
Lets not judge others but simply love others like jesus would. Yeah lets say that, when half the bible talks about turning away fromsin so that when jesus returns to JUDGE all, you wont be judge as wicked and distastefull.
And also the bible very clearly states in 1 Corinthians 6:9 that homosexuality is a sin and that their is no place n heaven for those who knowingly sin
But Bob, what about Jews, or others who don’t believe in the New Testament? Is it ok for them to be gay?
When you say that the Bible doesn’t address same-sex marriage, you are not really sincerely searching for the truth. The Bible doesn’t say anything about human-vegetable marriage or human-animal marriage either. Jesus directly addressed marriage and clearly defined marriage in Matthew 19. So, if you are truly a follower of Christ, there is no confusion on this issue. Jesus clearly defined it. Follow His definition or don’t follow it, that is your choice But it’s quite obvious that the Lord Jesus was not confused. However, you are either confused or intentionally trying to mislead people for your own agenda. Which is it?
Human-Vegetable Marriages For ALL!!!
We’d all be a whole lot healthier in America if we were that fond of veggies…just saying.
1. Logic
The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad. Who can understand it?
Jeremiah 17:9
This pertains to logic. Why trust your HUMAN mind? It is incurable and corrupt. What Mrs. Davis is doing is purely out of the Holy Spirit, only faith can make this kind of stand.
2. Hypocrisy
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act.
Leviticus 20:13
Now I’m no bible college student, thy as pretty clear on God’s view of homosexuality. So to say that there isn’t anything in the bible about it is wrong and that’s the real lie here not how women can’t be authority figures in the church (God made men to lead, Women to follow get over it).
3. Confusion
Persecution: a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate people based on their membership in a religious, ethnic, social, or racial group. This is an Oxford dictionary definition. Now she is acting on her rights as a Christian, because of freedom of religion. A few months ago a gay mayor demanded all the pastors give her all sermons on homosexuality they have, this violates privacy AND freedom of religion. It wasn’t blown out of the water like this is.
4. Integrity
This isn’t about integrity, it’s about doing what’s right in God’s eyes. She is going what the Holy Spirit is say is right! What right do you have as members of the church, a brother or sister in Christ, and a fellow Christian to reprimand her like this! It isn’t your place. This is the most unethical thing I have read. It tears down a fellow believer, twists the bible’s words, and has the potential to deceive a lot of hearts.
Test what you read and see with actual proof from the bible. Don’t compare it to parenting, because yes it’s not the same. But it’s still not okay to tear one another down. We are one in the body of Christ, don’t rip each other apart.
It just annoys me…If she doesn’t want to give out the license to homosexuals then why is she even working there? o.e If it’s SOOOO important to her to deny people their licenses then she should quit.
Under which law did she break? did the Congress pass a gay rights law? no. does the supreme court have the power to create laws? NO.
Once again, I hope this clears up your misunderstanding: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
The thing is, she was following the law. Since when does the Supreme Court make law? The Supreme Court made a ruling, from that ruling our lawmakers, Congress, make law. But the people of our country have been so dumbed down, they don’t know this. They just take what our government says as truth. Kentucky law does not recognize same sex marriage. Until that law is changed she is following the law by not issuing licences to them. Beyond that, the person who wrote this article has no clue what the Bible or Jesus taught. There are so many errors, I am not even going to try to list them. Jesus is a Torah keeping Jewish Rabbi, as well as Creator and the Word oabominationsis 2:24 states, Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and shall become united and cleave to his WIFE, and they shall become one flesh”. This is what Jesus believed and followed. The pagans practiced homosexuality as part of their religious rituals. Jesus would never approve of this idolatry, now or then. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 13, the Word of God states this is sin. Before you bring up Ms. Davis’ past, let me say, yes, she sinned, but she has accepted Jesus as her Savior since then, so according to 1 Corinthians 6:11, she is washed clean of those sins. Jesus was there when the world was created and will rule earth in the future. Lawlessness and sin lead to destruction. Our country is full of it. There is no neutral, you are either for Him, Jesus and the Torah, the Law, or you are for Satan and lawlessness and idolatry. You have to choose where you will spend eternity. Which path will you follow?
Genesis 2:24. This is the only legal marriage, between a male and female.
You have an unfortunate last name for someone who thinks as you do.
@Four Eyes: HAHAHAHA!!!
April, this is for you: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
The bible says nothing about same-sex marriage? My what a twisted statement. You might as well say it says nothing about radio. The Bible says nothing about same-sex marriage because neither two men nor two women living together, however committed to each other, does not constitute a “marriage” in Biblical terms. However, the Bible says a LOT about homosexuality, and what it says about it is “it is wrong.” God even calls it an abomination. Jesus said about marriage that ‘from the beginning, God made them male and female.” He continued, saying that man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife [not “spouse”, WIFE]. What God has joined together, let no man tear asunder. (The previous was somewhat paraphrased because I don’t have the exact quote in front of me at the time I am composing this reply.) Finally, since Jesus and the Father are of One mind in all matters, anyone claiming that Jesus had a different opinion than that of the Father must be talking about a different Jesus than the Bible describes, and thus cannot claim the title “Christian” because that only applies to those who follow and act like Jesus of Nazareth as described in the Bible, (see origin of the word “Christian.”)
Biblical literalists LOVE to infer from the scripture when it fits their worldview….
Curious. How are you supposed to take the Bible if not literally? This is an honest question, here.
Avner, how do you reconcile with yourself those passages that talk about hair, covering of the head, pork, slavery etc.? Please reply.
Also, I know I’m not Avner but please read the New Testament. That should answer all your questions.
Please tell me when the U.S. Constitution changed the meaning of “marriage” since Congress is the only branch of government that is allowed to make and pass laws. The Constitution gives her the Freedom of Religion and she has not violated any federal and state laws the this judge claims. Logic: She is following the law of the government, for there is no law allowing same-sex marriage. Hypocrisy: You need to recheck your Bible, Matthew, 1 Thessalonian, 1 Corinthians. Confusion: The bible states to hate the sin not the person, but there are people out there persecute based solely on religion and I have not heard a whole lot of Christian kids bullying gay kids, I am not saying that it doesn’t happen for it does but you are confused in this article. Integrity: She is doing what the law allows her to do. The KY law only recognizes “marriage” as one man and one woman and the federal law states the same thing. She has not lost her integrity. The writer of this article needs to read and understand what is going on before writing another article like this one.
Here you go, Robert. You’ve unfortunately been Huckabee’d…. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
You apparently haven’t read the whole bible you can not pick and choose verses read the whole thing you’ll find that Christians are correct!
Yeah, I think that’s usually Boeskool’s point.
At least concerning the first part of your reply…I guess there’s supposed to be a period and then a capital “R” for the second sentence. That’s where I would suppose he’d disagree.
I find it interesting that the author “The Bosekool” says that the clerk needs to “do her job”. In this country, we have kosher delis that refuse to serve a cheeseburger because of their dietary laws, and no one protests. We have the Amish living in complete, segregated communities, and no one protests. Lately, Muslims are being accorded the right to not handle pork if they work in a supermarket, or places like Walmart, or Target. We give consideration to so many special groups and interests – yet, when a Christian professes to have a desire to adhere to their conscience, suddenly they should quit their job or “get over it”.
The Boeskool” you cannot claim to be a Christian, and pick and choose what part of the Bible you will follow. The Bible is not Burger King – you cannot “have it your way”. Jesus was very clear on marriage, and how God regards it. Jesus specifically addressed it through the scripture Matthew 5:28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Just LOOKING at another woman, was committing adultery.
Marriage, the union of one man, and one woman is sacred to God. Genesis 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”. Marriage for God is not the ceremony and huge reception we have today. In the days of Jesus, a man and woman were joined in marriage by the simple act of coupling intimately. Period. That was their commitment before God and man.
To compare the situation with the clerk, to someone serving alcohol in a restaurant is not accurate in the least. The correct analogy would be you apply for and are hired for a job as a receptionist. You are told the job will entail answering phones, and greeting customers as they come into the office. You gladly accept the position, and happily work there for a year. After a year, one day, the boss comes up to you and tells you that now, your job entails you sitting at the desk and greeting people, topless, because they have decided that they want to appease a certain clientele. According to you, she should take off her top and just sit there and be happy she has a job, or quit and go elsewhere. Sorry, but that is not right, fair, or just, and definitely not something Jesus would approve of.
Second, you seem to forget that there is scripture that we are to follow the laws of man – EXCEPT if those laws go against God’s law. God’s laws and commandments are supreme to all laws. Matthew 19:4-6 “4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” Laws of man are not higher than the laws of God. As a Christian, I am to follow the example set by Christ. Christ said that He did not come to abolish the law, but to FULFILL it. That does not mean that we are not to understand and be guided by the Old Testament – we are suppose to learn it, and apply it, under the spirit of how Jesus fulfilled them.
Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
Matthew 5:27-28 (KJV)
“27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
So Jesus was VERY specific, in telling us to dig DEEPER and understand the laws of Moses, and go further into them – not discard them. You say that Jesus was some sort of laid back guy, who would not have acted as this woman has. I say you are wrong. When Jesus overturned the money changers tables, he showed us righteous anger towards the exploitation of the Temple for profit. When Jesus told satan to “get thee behind me” He was showing us how to spot the devil in things before us.
God sent Jesus to show us how to be closer to who He made us to be, and how to be with one another. Jesus shed His blood on the cross to bridge a way for us to transverse our sin nature, and be able to come before God, in spite of our sins – how to be forgiven, through His blood. Do NOT blur the message. God despises sin. God hates sin. SIN, rebellion, going against the laws of God is what has put us away from God. SIN is anything that puts distance between God’s pure nature, and our sin nature.
Your message, your story, while eloquent, and entertaining it is misleading, and dangerous. God despises sin, as did Jesus. While Jesus us came to show us how to be with one another, how to love one another, how to heal one another, He also came to show us how to move away from our sinful natures. Jesus, and God, abhor sin – ALL sin. Lying, cheating, gossiping, hate mongering, gluttony, lust, homosexuality, murder, are ALL sins. Period. God is not politically correct. We have ALL sinned, and ALL fall short of the glory that is God.
This woman stood up for what she has embraced. She took this job and has performed it, as she was hired to do. Now the job has changed, and it goes against her values. They could have made accommodations to allow her to adhere to her values, and have someone else issue the licenses. Instead the chose to make an example of her. Follow OUR values and beliefs or go to jail. Who is next? This is not America – this is becoming a very scary nation, that is no longer America, home of the FREE, land of the BRAVE.
It has become Amerika, Home of the politically correct, land of the sheep. (smh)
“Pick & Choose,” “Pick & Choose…” So tiring….
Thank you for this, by the way–“The Bible is not Burger King – you cannot ‘have it your way.’”
Well said.
You are wrong! There is NO LAW enacted by congress that requires her to issue any marriage license to gays. What they are doing to her by arresting her is illegal and criminal. A Supreme Court decision is not law and they are violating her First Amendment rights.
I wrote this just for you, dawsog…. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I wish your article actually included some scripture instead of pure opinion since you throw around the terms empirically and objectively. How about the scripture where Paul says if you feel that doing something is an affront to your conscience, then it is a sin to do that thing? The only thing that matters for this women is her relationship with God and if she feels it goes against her conscience to issue same-sex marriage licenses, then for her to shrug that off and do it because her job requires it would be her placing her job over her relationship with God. Nobody can say whether she has a right in her faith to do this or not except her. This article is the ultimate form of judging and crucifying a believer for sticking to her convictions.
I’m assuming this is a spoof response? or it’s really an ignorant atheist who has written this “a christian perspective”
1) drinking alcohol is a sin.
ANSWER: NO, it’s not. it’s the abuse of alcohol, Jesus first miracle was making wine.
2) The Bible actually says nothing whatsoever about same-sex marriage.
ANSWER:
Jesus as YAHWEH God in the flesh said about biblical marriage. NASB Mat 19:4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, Mat 19:5 and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? Mat 19:6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” Jesus was quoting, Gen 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. So Marriage is a creation mandate that man has no authority to redefine.
3) CONFUSION.
ANSWER:
It’s not persecution of LGBT, The LGBT are claiming rights that they do not have and was not given by God.
3b) obeying the rules of their government….that women shouldn’t be in positions of authority.
ANSWER:
Act 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
That’s IN the CHURCH. it has noting to do with OUTSIDE the church.
4) INTEGRITY–I once heard Rob Bell
ANSWER:
Rob Bell is a heretic.
So you are saying Christians cannot rune for public office? or if they do, they must leave their Christianity at home.? Christianity does NOT work that way.
1) If Kim Davis is refusing to issue marriage licenses for gay couples due to her religious convictions, why is she refusing to issue licenses to heterosexual couples? Is this refusal to straight couples a sin in the eyes of God since obviously, according to all the Christian fanatics commenting here, He wants his straight worshipers to go forth and marry? 4 couples have joined in the civil suit against Mrs. Davis, 2 gay and 2 straight.
2) The job of county clerk cannot be compared to a job as a florist, baker, store clerk, etc., because the clerk is elected by the citizens of that county, not by having an interview and being hired by another person or by opening your own business. As an elected official, it is the legal obligation that you serve all citizens, not just those who share your religious beliefs. Part of the county clerk oath of office:
“…i will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection, or partiality, so help me God.”
So she swore to God to uphold her clerk duties without partiality, but i guess all she has to do is be partial, and God will forgive her for that sin. Nice that she can pick and chose which sins she wants to commit.
You are completely wrong, I guess you are reading Liberals invented Bible. You need to re read Bible and ask God for revelation. Without His revelation it’s just a History. Apparently some people call themselves Christians but aren’t following Christ & reading word of God.
God loves the sinners but not sin, He hates sin, when this sinfulness & wickedness stays unrepentant He hates wickedness & wicked as well. Unfortunately we live in a society which promotes sinfulness & immorality in the name of equality, which has made its own version of Bible and gospel of love and wants to change, challange & mold true living word of God to suit their sinful lives, behavior & life style. I can assure you what God hated in old times thousands of years ago He still hates it. Prophet Isaiah spoke of this generation in Isaiah 5:20-21 “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!”
The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin, You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22) (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.
However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshiper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).
We are living end of times and devil knows he does not have much time left so he is working overtime and trying to take as many souls as he can to hell with him. Soul never dies and it lives for ever its your choice which side you spend your eternity on either Heaven or Hell.which side you send trillions and trillions of years. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it (Matthew 7:14). Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:14-17.
Jesus Loves sinners, He used to hang out with sinners not to be part of their sins but to set them free from their sins and make them clean and transform their lives, Every time Jesus healed anyone who would tell that person SIN NO MORE.
Don’t lose your only shot to eternity by following so called corrupt and crooked leaders who are promoting wickedness & immorality in the name of equality, are going to hell and trying to take everyone with them. You have word of God follow it! Choice is YOURS.
I love people enough to warn them. God tells us in His Word that lying is sin, stealing is sin, murder is sin, adultery is sin, homosexuality is sin…and “the wages of sin is death.” The Bible says “all have sinned,” and we want people to know that God will forgive them and give them eternal life if they turn from their sins and accept His Son, Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior.
Kim is being attacked by Liberals and i admire her faith. Matthew 24:13 says The one who endures to the end will be saved and will have crown of everlasting life.
What law Kim is authorized to issue homosexual couples a marriage license?’ That simple question is giving many in Congress a civics lesson that they never got in grade school.
The Supreme Court cannot and did not make a law. They only made a ruling on a law. Congress makes the laws. Because Congress has made no law allowing for same-sex marriage, Kim does not have the Constitutional authority to issue a marriage license to homosexual couples.
Kim is a person of great conviction. When people of conviction fight for what’s right they often pay a price, but if they don’t and we surrender, we will pay a far greater price for bowing to the false God of judicial supremacy. Government is not God. No man – and certainly no unelected lawyer – has the right to redefine the laws of nature or of nature’s God. Five unelected lawyers have abused their power by ruling in favor of a national right to same-sex marriage with no legal precedent and with nothing in our Constitution to back it up. They have violated American’s most fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution — religious liberty.
I stand with Kim Davis and every American of faith under attack by Washington elites who have nothing but disdain for us, our faith and the Constitution
Here you go, Steve…. I hope this clears it up. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Clearly this author only wants to draw people in to read this article. There is NOTHING Christian about this perspective. Besides. This is more of a constitutional issue anyway. To date there is NO LAW that this woman broke! The Supreme Court does not make a law! There is no law that Congress made that the court interpreted here. Kim Davis is been jailed because of wicked shameful fascists who expect you to get in line with their perspective or go to the gas chamber!
Zad! I wrote this for you! https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
RELIGION: I can’t eat pork.
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: I’m going to get a job at a place that serves pork and make sure that you can’t eat pork, either.
Leviticus quoters: do you actually keep ALL of Levitical law? Your homework is to go “read your Bible” as you keep charging Chris and others to do, and read all of Leviticus. See how much of it is a part of present-day Christianity and, more importantly, YOUR Christianity.
Jeremy, the point of quoting Leviticus is to show God’s standard/Laws. This is what he demanded by way of perfection. By the reading of the Books of the Law, more specifically, Leviticus, the reader is supposed to be able to come to the understanding the absolute perfection in the eyes of God is absolutely impossible and that there was always going to be a need for the sacrifice of a pure lamb/goat to “cover over” the sins committed against God. The need points to the cross and Jesus being the perfect sacrifice once and for all so continued animal sacrifice could be done away with, hence Jesus’ statement, “Do not think I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” Matt. 5:17, NIV. Jesus did what no other living human being could ever do; live a perfect, flawless life. That is why he is called, “The Lamb of God.” He is the ultimate sacrifice – the only sacrifice able to now, permanently cover over (erase) the sins of all mankind. Jesus’ life and death was about God’s grace and mercy, because He provided the Lamb of sacrifice so we did not have to continue in the sacrificial system, thus, completing the requirements of the Law. One only needs to accept that the sacrifice of Jesus was also for him/her personally in order to stand forgiven (aka – acquitted) before the Judge, the God and Creator, for having broken the Law in the first place. Ultimately we will all be judged either by the Law or shown mercy, depending on what we did with Jesus. Since God has shown mercy on us, we ought to also be merciful to others. But back to the original article, the author said that the Bible was silent when it came to homosexual marriages. Those verses in Leviticus, God’s Law, are being quoted to prove the inaccuracy of the argument. God clearly laid out the Law that homosexuality was an abomination to Him because that is not the way He created man and woman to be in the first place. The if/then logical conclusion; the “if” statement being proven, then the “then” statement follows that God does not endorse homosexual marriage.
Chris, thanks for your respectful, logical, scripturally accurate reply in this otherwise Jerry Springer-esque comment chain. I actually agree with you on what you said about the Law (Torah) driving us to our need for a Savior and Jesus fulfilling the Law, not abolishing it. I don’t think Chris (Boeskool) ever said the Bible was silent on homosexuality–he said it was silent on same-sex marriage (probably because it wasn’t a cultural issue at the time) and that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, but had plenty to say on divorce.
The point of my comment, however, was to highlight the fact that people quoting Leviticus 18:22 probably ignore the majority of the other codes and laws in Leviticus in their own Christian lives, mainly because they don’t fit our culture. They argue that what God established in Leviticus is still his design, but pick which pieces they still think are non-negotiable (i.e., homosexuality) for a Christian. See where I’m going? I’m not arguing for or against homosexuality. I’m arguing against hypocrisy and singling out “other people’s sin.” I don’t see any outrage against divorce in the church. Or premarital sex. Or child abuse.
But I digress. The debate always comes back to whether homosexuality is sin. That’s not what the article is about. That’s not what the Supreme Court ruling is about, either. It’s about gay people having the same rights to get married and be protected by the law. That’s lower-case law, not Law. Some Christians believe America, like Israel, was established as a theocracy, but I hate to say that our founding fathers established the government to be separate from the church (or any religion). So, Christians cannot force Christian ideals on legislation any more than the government can legislate what Christians can and cannot believe. Legal marriages and licenses issued by a County Clerk are the government’s territory. Marriages performed in Churches (before God) are Churches’ territory. And ne’er the twain shall meet.
In response to Christians following the law of the government and accepting same sex marriages, I have two responses. The first one is one I stated in my first response to this article. That is the concept that where the laws of man are in conflict with the law of God, then the mandate is to “…obey God rather than men!” I will use a different source here… Acts 5:29. The second is this; Marriage is an institution created by God. The word is a transliteration from I believe the Greek. God defined marriage as between that of a man and a woman. If a country decides to allow the same rights to same sex couples, then so be it! The issue is the word marriage. Call it a Civil Union! Call ALL such contracts civil unions; that is all a government can really do in the first place!
I am quite certain our forefathers never EVER thought this would be an issue, since our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. They did not see the problem with using the biblical term, “marriage” in the creation of individual state and well as national documents. Obviously they were in error!
See, the bottom line here is that what Christians are up in arms about is a population of people are trying to change the meaning of the Biblical word, “marriage.”Man cannot change what God has said. It is absurd to think they can. It is equally absurd to expect other people to change their sincerely held beliefs just because another sector of the population are uneasy or do not like those beliefs. It seems far more reasonable to change the wording of clearly man-made documents than the definition of what many believe to be what God has defined!
Hey again, Chris. I understand your point of view. But while marriage is an institution created by God, can we really reserve the rights to the word “marriage” only for the Judeo-Christian population?
No, Jeremy, marriage is not to be only for the Judeo-Christian; other religious groups believe the same. The word “marriage” should only be used for God’s definition: “For this reason man shall leave his mother and cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one flesh” – the union of a man and a woman. Only. I live in CA. Our governor has decided in all his foolish wisdom, to outlaw the words “husband” and “wife.” I believe it is on legal documents only, but now only the word “spouse” can be entered on legal docs. He got it wrong. The word “marriage” is what needed changing, not husband and wife. Get rid of marriage and rename it “civil union.”
Chris, this is not a theocracy. In this country we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion, so why should a couple who doesn’t believe in your brand of Christianity have to live by your rules? You can give us bible quotes until the end of time, but if we don’t interpret the bible the same way you do, or if we don’t believe in your bible at all, why should we adhere to your biblical rules? Kim Davis is being paid to do a job. If she can’t, in good conscience, do her job, she needs to find another job.
blah blah blah blah God. That is the majority of arguments here. Guess what religious people? You have the right to argue The Bible’s meaning as much as you want in your churches and homes. I am very happy you have that right. I am also happy I have the right to ignore it. Mrssss. Davis (I award her an s for each marriage) is not fighting for her religion. She is fighting to force others to practice and observe her religion using the government to do so. Mrssss. Davis does not make enquiries into the moral righteousness of every person asking for a marriage license, nor does she have the right to; that includes the 2 gentlemen who wished to obtain a legal document from their county. Mrs. Davis is attempting to have others pay her penance of conscience and embrace of religion because of her multiple failed marriages, children of questionable parentage, etc. More power to her. Get your life together Mrsss. Davis… but please recognise that you are far from a victim, you are the aggressor. And you are wrong.
Dave, I think I love you.
furthermore, if we were truly following the Bible, Mrsss. Davis would not have a position of power over men and she would not be permitted to speak without asking her husband. The problem is which one.
Dave, you misinterpret the Bible, primarily because you do not understand the context in which those references you refer to. Regarding the position of power over men was in the context in which the whole society was set up at the time. Throughout biblical history, there were many times, even in the New Testament times, where women were in position of authority, which God accepted as legitimate (the church in Philippi is one example). And the second reference about not speaking without the husband’s permission was because women were being disruptive by yelling across to their husbands while others were speaking in the worship services (in the culture, men and women sat separated from each other on opposite sides). The exhortation was for women to remain silent and hold their questions for their husbands until a time when the worship service was over and they could talk face to face.
* for the person who wrote this article
“From a Christian perspective” I must say that’s HYPOCRITICAL to add that into your text. Seeing how your looking from the other end. The bible speaks clearly* against gay marriage. In fact it goes to talk about how God punished them. I agree there is CONFUSION, and it begins with “articles” written by someone who knows nothing of a Christian life. You cant write a post against someone if you don’t have the proof to go along with it. The LOGIC I can understand. If you don’t believe in selling alcohol you shouldn’t work on a restaurant. Well, alcohol is a contraversal conversation, gay marriage isn’t. That’s the logic. You can’t issue someone something written in stone and be a believer. That’s straddling the fence. This lady has INTEGRITY seeing how she is true to her word. Yea, she may have been divorced and yes it speaks against that and is against that (unless an affair) was present in the time of the relationship. Who’s to say that wasnt* I fact the case? Also, let me re assure you that this isn’t a “from a Christians perspective” because of it was you would know all about forgiveness and if this lady did anything wrong in her life and asked God to forgive her, she’s without spot or blemish. You, whoever you are, need to be the one to sit down and reconsider your article and rewrite to what is right and not by opinion. If people want to be Gay, let them be. If they want to be straight, let them be. We’re not God. Only he can judge what’s right and wrong. But we can only judge what WE do as Christians that is a part of what we believe we should and shouldn’t do. God bless
You have quite a bit of misinformation here. First off, the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. And Kim Davis is well within her rights as an American to refuse to do something that violates her beliefs. Second, where you said that women are not to be in positions of authority you’re forgetting that in the Old Testament women served as priests. Look up the story of Deborah in Judges. Third, the Supreme Court ruled that gay marriage is legal, but there is no law stating that you have to issue a marriage license. She hasn’t broken the law. You claim to be a Christian but have absolutely no clue what the Bible actually says. You’re the kind of Chrostian that gives the rest of us a bad name. Thanks for that.
Travis, don’t call into question or insult the author’s Christianity or Biblical knowledge because you disagree with his interpretation of scripture. He’s not doing that to you.
Also, think back to the Civil Rights movement. The Supreme Court had ruled black Americans could vote, but local courts were denying them that right, arguing they weren’t breaking any laws and it was their RIGHT to do so.
Lastly, knowing Chris Boeskool personally, I would venture to say that many more people will actually get a glimpse of what Jesus is like through the way he lives his life than having their head bashed in by Bible thumpers who are quick to point out their sin.
Jeremy, I take issue with the equating a race, in this case, the Blacks being denied the right to vote even though they had been declared citizens of the US, with a lifestyle. When people of the same race marry and have children (for that matter,when two unmarried people of the same race have children!) their offspring will be black as well (there are some rare exceptions with latent genes, but this is the basic genetic rule). When two individuals of the same sex marry, they cannot have children without outside help. They would go extinct! That is the difference between race and lifestyle.
I am, as we have discussed elsewhere in this thread, not for calling same-sex unions marriages. I; however, do not disagree that if a couple want to commit to live together, to be life partners, that they should be able to have protection, be each others’ emergency contact, purchase homes together and be able to have the same tax deductions through other legal means; just do not call it marriage.
I am stunned to find that practicing a sexual preference is now a religion and is treated like a protected status. It is not a religion and is a choice that is made. Presecution is such a strong word and usually is the result of behavior. Some is real Lots of different views but everyone makes chioces in their life about what behaviour they participate in even if there is a genetic predespotion. Sexual practices are not religious unless they are classified as a cult. Just some thoughts.
There are some that believe that since God is a God of love, He loves the homosexuals just as much as he does anyone else. You are correct. God does love all people and He loves them equally. He is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance”. There is not a single human being He does not love.
What He does NOT love is the lifestyle that the homosexuals have chosen. According to his word, it is wrong. Point Blank.
In the book of Leviticus, chapter eighteen, verse twenty-two, God commands, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
In Genesis, chapter 13, and later in 19, God refers to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah who practiced homosexuality. And, in that story He clearly states that what they were practicing was wrong.
And if you think that God only disproved of it in the Old Testament then look at Romans 1:26-27. It says, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”
If you think that homosexuality is acceptable, then you CANNOT claim to believe the entirety of the Bible, because the Bible clearly condemns it. Whether or not you believe is altogether up to you. But, if you do choose to believe in the verity of the Bible, than you must realize that the choice the Supreme Court just made was not only FOR the homosexuals…
… but AGAINST God.
How you KNOW what GOD loves and does not love?
This whole situation has nothing to do with homosexuality and the Bible’s position on that. It simply has to do with her civic responsibility as a public servant. She was hired for the position not because of her personal religious beliefs, but in spite of. Therefore she cannot impose her religious beliefs on her civic duty. If the two clash, she must either comply or resign. But she cannot neglect her civic duty because of her religious beliefs.
cool nice one
What law was broken? http://www.afa.net/the-stand/christian-persecution/clerk-the-only-one-obeying-the-law/
Here you go, dude: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
You all need to read this:
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/persecution-complex
I think what people have failed to realize in this situation is that as County Clerk she has to SIGN the license. She has to put her signature on that paper, a stamp of approval. When you sign your name on a contract, it says, yes, I agree. When you purchase an item, when you sign up for a service, you are agreeing to the terms of the contract. She doesn’t agree. She took an oath. Surely someone wanting to be married understands the implications of an oath.
If she can’t get over her high religious horse and do her job than leave the job.
Not sure I agree that her signature constitutes approval of the marriage. She is not charged with approving the basis, reason, or moral grounds for marriage. Her job is, as a representative of the County, to uphold the LAW and to stamp the license if those applying meet the criteria set forth by rules and regulations of the governmental agency that pays her a nice wage. She is not in a position nor qualified to put each couple through a vetting process and give her blessing for the marriage. So she is effectively choosing to DISCRIMINATE against certain couples. That is not legal.
Oh my, so many issues here, no way to address them all. First of all, the law is the law and it is not legal for Ms. Davis to discriminate against homosexuals, regardless of her personal or religious beliefs. She broke the law and she suffered the consequences for the choice she made.
Line for line, homosexuality is addressed on a much smaller scale that many other messages in the Bible. For those who stand by Davis, please enlighten me on how you decide which passages of the Bible GOD wants us to take literally and those he wishes to diminish? (Slavery, Hats, Hair, Cloth, Divorce etc.)
I am not blessed with the gift of infallible interpretation of God’s mind and the Holy Bible.
Please no Rhetoric, just a reasonable explanation of how you chose. I am genuinely curious and will keep an open mind.
first of all you’re completely wrong. Yes we all are supposed to love everyone as the bible says. But the bible also said God made man and woman. Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. You need to read you’re bible and make sure you’re facts are straight. And if tthe bible says that they are allowed to be man and man or woman and women. Prove it. Prayers for you. I SUPPORT KIM DAVIS
PLEASE if you are going to comment on this blog and you want to be taken for a reasonably intelligent person, PLEASE learn the difference between YOUR and YOU’RE.
DING DING DING!!!
Chloe wins the prize for the first person to pull out “Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.” Chloe, you win….
A GIANT EYE ROLL!!!!! Congrats.
So sorry her divorce or 3 rd marriage offends god .. Grow up Davis. Either follow the LAW or get out of office cause you nor god has the right to break the law by using your definition or perception to alter our governments decision. I hope you get sued for discrimination. You cannot choose which of gods laws people can or cannot break.
Who ever made this is very judgmental and should really read his/her bible. KJV if you’re a christian.
I can’t tell you how funny this is to me….
As rustin Cole would say… What do you think the average IQ is in this (chat) room is? Funny as well that everyone basically Comes up with hundreds of different ways to say the same 2 things. Either do your job or keep on refusing them homos…. You can’t pick and choose what laws to follow. Kim Davis will be on the old Duggar speaking tour getting rich talking to very old pee about standing up for Jesus and going to jail over her beliefs. Getting very rich
You should just change the title…it’s misleading. This is obviously not from a Biblical Christian’s perspective. Homosexuality is a sin, as are many other things. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and we all need forgiveness for our sins. Homosexuals are no better or worse than the rest of us. But if she doesn’t agree with it, she should step down from her job. We may not agree with the ruling, but if you are in a position that requires you to uphold it, then you should step down if you can’t. I will continue to love others and speak the truth (Biblical truth) in love and pray for myself and others.
Kiim is doing her job.
The Kentucky Constitution, the highest law in the State of Kentucky
Click to access ib59.pdf
States:
Section 233A. Valid or recognized marriage –
Legal status of unmarried individuals. Only a
marriage between one man and one woman shall be
valid or recognized as a marriage in Kentucky. A legal
status identical or substantially similar to that of
marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or
recognized.
Text as ratified on: November 2, 2004.
History: Creation proposed by 2004 Ky. Acts ch. 128, sec. 1
Yes, but Supreme Court ruling has precedence over state ruling. Otherwise slavery would still be the law in the southern states.
XC, this is just for you! https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I bet when you wrote this article you weren’t expecting this, were you Chris?? Gay marriage brings out the crazies!
seriously? this is ABOUT the LAW … what law? what LAW did the Supreme Court PUT in place that says she MUST issue a license? THERE IS NONE… She could be BUDDHIST or MUSLIM.. it’s not about religion here.. it’s about the LAW and she has NOT broken one ..
Yes. Yes has. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Thank you, sir. 🙂 A friend linked me to your post this afternoon after reading a similar one on my blog. It’s… reassuring, I think, is the word I want… to find that there are other Christians out there who take that step back and say “Wait… this is messed up, y’all.” Who recognize that even if a Christian believes that homosexuality is sinful (I don’t), there’s nothing I recall in scripture commanding that they enforce that belief upon people who don’t share it.
You are a breath of fresh air, you keep on. You just keep right on.
Thanks Laura. It IS reassuring to find like-minded people.
First of all, I’m not sure how this was suppose to be an article, “from a Christians perspective “. It is obviously not! If you read Matt. 19-4, In the words of Jesus,(4) “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning MADE MALE AND FEMALE, (5) AND SAID FOR THIS CAUSE SHALL A MAN LEAVE FATHER AND MOTHER, AND SHALL CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE: AND THEY TWAIN SHALL BE ONE FLESH? It is obvious that his intention was NOT for 2 men to marry or 2 women to marry, he plainly stated MALE AND FEMALE. If you are going to do an article that is suppose to be from a Christians perspective, please try to get a True Christian to do the article. God didnt intend for men to be with men and women to be with women, if he had they would be able to concieve children together and they obviously cant. He commanded Adam and Eve to do exactly what these gay couples can never do, “Be fruitful and multiply.”
Got it, Diana. You think I’m not a real Christian…. Point taken. Thanks for stopping by.
There is one more reason: The line between Church and State was crossed. Davis’ job is a civic job and she has a duty to perform her job, irrespective of her religious beliefs. By refusing to do her civic duty due to religious beliefs, she is putting church above state, and is against the Bill of Rights. She is using her religious beliefs to circumvent her civic duties. That is against the law. If this were some non-governmental or private organization she would be in the right. But if her religious beliefs go against the civic duty as a public servant, she must obey the law, or simply resign. The church cannot have precedence over the state in matters of civic responsibility.
I am quite sure that your pastor will be resigning Sunday morning, after he has read your comments and realized he has failed miserably. In the mean time, read the post below;
Mark 1:15 Ministries
Published by Lee Stone · July 12 ·
To say that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the New Testament, is like saying there is no mention of a flood in the Old Testament. One must first understand that Jesus was, is, and shall forever be the Word. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God”. One would then need to understand that “All scripture is given by God” and that Jesus “came not to destroy the law”, in fact He (Jesus) stated “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass (scripturally speaking this happens in Rev 21, after the Millennial Reign), one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”. Therefore, one would need to understand that those laws still pertain to today but Christ received our punishment. (I know that somewhere, someone just called me a legalist, but scripture says if we turn our ear from hearing the law our prayers become abominations before Him, and America wants to pervert and contort scripture, yet have their prayers answered, so I am not a legalist, I am a realist and we must start living by the unadulterated Word of God). And since all scripture is given by God, one would only need to read Rom. 1, but the statement “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality” is not a statement of fact, but a statement of denial. The homosexual community knows they are living in sin, they are not born this way, they choose this way, they choose to follow Satan and this is apparent in their increased defiance: the theft of the rainbow (a promise not to flood the earth because of sin), mocking Jesus, throwing excrement on Christians and using pages from a Bible as toilet paper, to name a few. If Jesus said nothing, if there is no wrong in your lifestyle and there is no conviction when you are in the presence of a Christian or scripture why are you defiant? While it is Jesus that you mock, you should consider giving thanks to Him for being here, for offering mercy, for extending grace because, I believe that were we living in any year B.C. and not enjoying the dispensation of grace, America would have already suffered the hell fire and brimstone judgment and annihilation previously pronounced against Sodom and Gomorrah.
As a psychiatrist who specializes in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in older teenagers and young adults, I feel uniquely qualified to say that there are quite a few individuals on this thread who are in desperate need of treatment. Religion should be a tool used to enhance and enrich your life, not a weapon to wield over others.
THANK YOU!
I can not believe the public is so ignorant. #1 Kim Davis is the only person in this circus of clowns who is obeying the law. Both the Kentucky State Constitution and the Constitution of the United States which she is under oath to do. The supreme court does not have the authority to change laws that authority lies in the legislative body only. Does not lie in the executive office nor the judicial offices but strictly the legislative body. What really happened when the supreme court passed their ruling on same sex marriage is they violated their oaths of office for political reasons.They should be impeached and sent to jail for their acts of sedition. So all of you whom do not understand this for the facts it is I tell you do your own research. You can start with the United States Constitution and the Kentucky Constitution. Same sex marriage is a farce and does not exist because it is an illusion.
Forgive me, but it’s sort of hard to take advice from someone who cannot string together a few grammatically correct sentences. Go back to sixth grade and learn the rules of grammar, punctuation, and capitalization, and then maybe people will take your opinions seriously. Except maybe not, because everything you wrote above is incorrect. Talk about ignorance…
There are a lot of people out there like you, Barbara, so don’t feel alone….
The “people like you” to which I’m referring, of course, are people who are just SO wrong and have no capacity for figuring that out.
You are just as wrong as if you claimed that interracial marriage is “a farce and does not exist.” I wrote this for you, Barbara. Please take the time to read it. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I can tell you do not understand the Bible, your four reasons why Mrs. Davis is wrong is evidence of that and your understanding of our Constitution and Bill of Rights is not very good either.
Your first reason is logic but what you fail to understand is that if you help someone to sin you are also committing a sin and allowing sin to be brought into your life.
Your second reason is hypocrisy you say the Bible does not talk about same sex marriage but Jesus does talk about marriage in Mathew 19:4-5 4; He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ 5; and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?, what Jesus is talking about here is marriage between a Man and a Woman, there is no reason to talk about same sex marriage because it is a sin because if a man lays with a man that is a sin and an abomination according to the Bible.
Your third reason is confusion Kim Davis was asking what law says she has to issue same sex marriage licenses too gay couples because the Supreme Court does not have the authority to make laws but that is what they did with their ruling on this issue, so in this the Supreme Court Violated the First Amendment that says the Government can not make laws that establish a religion or interferes with the free practice of a religion and this allows for gay couples too force Churches to marry them against the teachings of the Church.
Your forth reason is integrity but it is the integrity of two of the Supreme Court Justices that should be call into question here, Justices Kennedy and Ginsburg who had already preformed same sex marriages and for this reason they should have abstained from voting on this issue because they are both prejudice against the idea of traditional marriage.
In other words you are incorrect in your thinking about this subject and your conclusions are not correct. I could continue but you and others will just try to say I am incorrect about what I have said here when I know I am not.
ajd, please read the comment above that I wrote in response to Barbara O’Connor. It applies to you, too.
You are not a Christian or a child of God. It is clear whose side you are on. Tagging it ‘christian’ to get more traffic. Use another headline psssss!
While I agree Kim is being hypocritical for allowing unscripturally divorced people to remarry, and it seems she herself is in an unscriptural marriage, one of your supporting arguments is misleading.
While it is true the bible is silent on the issue of homosexuality marriage, there is a simple reason for this. It didn’t exist at the time. The idea that marriage can be between people of the same sex was foreign (even to pagans) until recent historical times.
God instituted marriage through implication in Genesis to be between a man and a woman. Jesus then later affirmed that implication in the 19th chapter of Matthew. It is man who redefined marriage (you can call a cow a duck, but it will always be a cow).
I live in Dearborn, Michigan, where there is a large population of Muslims. The county clerk is a Muslim woman. If she decided that she wouldn’t grant marriage licenses to any woman who doesn’t wear a hijab, would you all be defending her? It’s the exact same thing as what Kim Davis is doing.
Dear Author,
Please do not write another article like this and claim it’s from a “Christian Perspective.” Next time call it “My own personal opinion as a Christian that completely contradicts the Bible.” We who follow what the Bible says would greatly appreciate it.
I will take that into consideration, JB. Maybe you can give us your eMail, and we can all check with you to see if our beliefs are “REAL” Christianity….
Wow! I’m glad it’s not just me who is interested in the right and wrong of Kim’s decision!
I thought she was wrong because she was a Pharisee. Then I read she’s only been a christian for a few years, so she is probably wrong from the side of fervent faith mixed with ignorance. So now I have more compassion for her.
It takes a lifetime of walking in faith to to stop being a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal and learn the way of love.
1) Being an elected official isn’t the same as working in a restaurant. Surely you believe our country should protect contientious objectors? Whether is be over war or same sex marriage, government positions should always protect religious beliefs (which, yes, include the ability to define marriage). Why can’t Mrs Davis recuse herself? All she is asking is that her name isn’t on the certificates.
2) There’s a huge difference here. This is simply a confusion of Mrs Davis position. Even the marriage begun under the most sinful of circumstances can be redeemed. Marriage is designed to be a picture of Gods love. Mrs Davks herself, in fact, experienced this. Much has been made of her being married 4 times. What’s often left out is that she converted to Christianity after her third marriage. What Mrs Davis is saying is that same sex marriage isn’t marriage. It has nothing to do with labeling people as “sinful.” (And the comment on women in the Bible is, forgive me, just bad exegesis…Gal. 3:28…no movement EVER has been more pro-woman than Christianity)
3) You claim to be proving Mrs Davis “100% objectively wrong”, but I’m not sure what this has to do with it (or helps to that end)? I’ll agree with you that American Christians have yet to experience true persecution.
4) This seems to be the same as #1. Again- there are numerous examples of our government protecting contientious objectors (and rightfully so). Why this situation is any different is beyond me. The state of Kentucky (of which I am a resident) ought to have allowed Mrs Davis to recuse herself and still issued a license to gay couples in Rowan county (there is precedence for this in North Carolina). It seems a much more sensible solution than to suggest she resign this position that she has faithfully executed for years. It’s easier to suggest on a blog than actually do it.
(Further, you suggest in a comment that Jesus never talked about homosexuality. While that maybe true, because sexual orientation didn’t exist in Jesus’ day, he did clearly say what marriage was (Matt 19). Not to mention, if you are a Christian, you believe Jesus was there “in the beginning”, and the God revealed in the Old Testament is Jesus.)
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Why isn’t the mayor and other city officials in jail for not adhering to federal law on immigration?
The mere fact that dozens of elected “officials” refuse to follow federal law and are not arrested proves that this is purely religious persecution.
These same elected officials have taken the same oath to follow the law.
Why only this ONE arrested????
Here you go, Steve: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Jesus said , “Follow Me” ,,, not one word about following : Politicians , journalists , newspapers , courts , “judges” , peers , etc , etc… NUFF SAID …
Except that whole part (numerous times, actually) where he said “obey them who have the rule over you and submit yourselves”…
She was obeying the laws of the Sovereign State of Kentucky. The Supreme Court does not make law.
This is supposed to be from a Christian perspective yet there is not one Bible quote which weakens your credibility. You did quote Rob Bell who doesn’t even believe in Hell which Jesus had more to say about then any other subject. Credibility gone!
I object to your calling this a “Christian perspective”. Please call it what it is: your opinion.
This was a pathetic article, designed to tear down a Christ-follower who doesn’t look like you or believe exactly like you do. She is following the God she knows and obeying the oath of the Sovereign State of Kentucky. You think she wanted this, to go to jail? Get real.
And yet, in this thread if comments that’s exactly what has been done to the writer. People should consider your words on all fronts. The broad scope of Christianity is as diverse as it is similar. Why is this writer not permitted the same respect when writing from his Christian perspective?
“Of comments” stinking autocorrect.
The root cause of the current strife is a lack of faith. The lack of faith caused Christians to stop leading quiet lives, trusting in God and instead became impatient and tried to do things their way, which resulted in the mess we are in. Read 1 Timothy2: 1-4 1I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
I feel sorry for this woman, because as a new follower of Christ, it would have been enough for her to repent and try to change her own life and love those around her that were hurt from her previous lifestyle.
We are living in the end times– focus on what matters most! Remember– how did Jesus answer the Sadducees who tried to trip his up? There is no marriage in heaven! Read Matthew 22: 23-33 Be wise!
Yeah, quoting Rob Bell and not the bible instantly undermines your authority on this subject in my books.
A good friend of mine who is a former police officer and currently an attorney summed it up well – Kim Davis absolutely has freedom of religion. She can practice whatever religion she chooses, provide services to whomever she chooses in the name of religion, even “off herself” in the name of religion, if she so chooses. Because she in an American citizen and is prescribed those rights.
HOWEVER, any time she is in that county clerk’s office of her’s, she is not “American Citizen Kim Davis”, she is “County clerk Kim Davis”, or “representative of the county/state Kim Davis”. For all intents and purposes, she IS “the state”.
The state does not have constitutional rights. In fact, the constitution could be argued to be an individual’s rights AGAINST the state. The state is not a citizen of the U.S., and therefore does not have any constitutional protection.
Which is why, for example, we don’t allow police officers to be KKK members. Although Joe Smith has the right to free speech, and therefore the right to join the KKK, Joe Smith the police officer does not have that right, because he is a direct representative of the state.
Therefore, Kim Davis only LEGALLY has 2 options – either be the state and understand that the state is ambiguous and knows no religion, or be Kim Davis and practice her religion until she’s blue in the face. Obviously the latter means stepping down from her position.
Another huge issue I have is that she has no problem whatsoever embezzling her salary while refusing to do her job. I’m a firefighter, and we are often asked to preform extra duties that were not a part of our job description at the time of my hiring. Stuff like responding to medical emergencies (since we’re able to respond much faster than EMS usually), dealing with much hotter, faster burning fires that can flashover and kill you significantly faster because of all the synthetic materials used in household items now, going into schools and teaching students the ol’ “stop drop and roll” routine (wasn’t in our description because a different department locally handled those things before us), or allowing families to stay in our hurricane-rated fire stations, because the local hurricane shelter closed down.
If we refused to preform these functions, Wouldnt respond to medical emergencies of arsonists, refused to fight fires in homes that contain synthetic materials (IE: every home), closed our doors to children during a hurricane, because they often can become juvenile firesetters which is directly contrary to our mission statement, etc. It’d still be cool for us to continue drawing our paycheck ?
What you miss in nearly everything is this:
Jesus wasn’t “about” love. He IS love. He was “about” people being made right so they can present themselves blameless, pure, and without sin before God and not spend eternity in separation from Him.
He would do anything, ANYTHING, to make that happen. Would He put His name on that license? I’m pretty sure not. He would look at them, look around the room. It’s a stone-throwing moment. But His final words to them would be “Go. And sin no more.”
Farmgirljo, Kim Davis was hired to do a job for the state. As a representative of the state, she cannot show preference for one religion over another. I am heterosexual but I don’t believe in your Jesus or your bible. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what Jesus says. (Sorry Chris, but these nut bags are really starting to piss me off.) Should I not be allowed to get married? And who the hell are you to dictate my life?
Kim Davis obeyed the laws of the sovereign State of Kentucky, elected into the office by Kentucky voters.
Kathy, is it? Marriage should never be a right that one has to get permission from the government to do. It was a religious ceremony, and sometime around 1930, if my memory serves me correctly, some ill-intending Democrats wanted to prevent marriage between peoples of race, so they invented the marriage license and made up incentives, like tax breaks, to encourage it.
Marriage laws are established by individual states. This is their Constitutional Right! The Supreme Court has no power to make any law, much less one on marriage. All they is interpret. Kim Davis is upholding Kentucky Law. There is no other law that she has violated as County Clerk.
Your happiness is fully up to you. A legal license is only a piece of paper. A clerk cannot keep you from being happy. That is your choice, in your power, in your control. If you’re miserable, look in your mirror.
It amuses me that at a time when so many heterosexual couples are choosing to live together outside of a legal marriage, gay couples are pressing for it. That tells me that it really isn’t about marital rights, but the breakdown of the family. Do the homework. You’ll find it.
Abolish all marriage licenses. Return it to the religious ceremony that it always was. Allow registration of said marriages for legal protection of property and offspring.
No farmgirl, it’s you that’s missing something. There are lots of different religions in this country and some people with no religion at all, and they are taxpayers and citizens just like you. Go preach your religion in your church or home, but stop trying to force others to live by your religion. It’s because of people like you that Christianity is dying out.
Thats not true . The other person who thought like you was John Lennon and went booyaw do not play around with God’s church
That’s a good one, Tiff. Thanks for the laugh.
You know what’s really too bad? It’s that when you’re dead, you won’t even be aware that you were wrong about everything because you’ll just be dead!
They are trying their best to take away our inalienable rights. We must stand with this woman on the principals that her 1st 4th and 10th amendment was denied. Many are judging her on her religion, I see it differently. State rights supersede Federal, Supreme Courts do not make laws, they interpret the constitution. Congress makes laws. She was abiding by the Oath that she took. KY Legislators do not meet again until 2016, for which then they can bring the subject of gay marriage up for vote. Until then, KY law describes a marriage between man and woman. This woman was correct in her convictions that there is no laws that says that she must give out gay marriage license. If the people of her county do not agree with her, they can sign a petition to have her removed. But no judge had a right to put her in jail, when he did that he violated his oath. If the government wins on this one, they are saying that 9 clowns in black robes have the right to make laws in this country. NO, NO…..NOOOOOO. They do not. Now more than ever before, we must know our rights and understand the Constitution of this great Country before they take our sovereignty away from us all. Then history will tell you what happens next.
To all those who ask under what authority did they have to arrest Mrs. Davis:
After the Supreme Court decided that states could not prohibit couples of different races from getting married, some officials refused to issue marriage licenses to interracial couples until the federal courts forced them to do so. (Loving v. Virginia) The Supreme Court affirmed that the 14th Amendment requires states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples because they fall under the protection of the 14th amendment. In the United States’ (constitutional) form of government, the Supreme Court decides disputes on issues addressed in our constitution. When the Supreme Court issues a ruling on the meaning of federal law, it is binding on all public officials (Federal and State). I venture to say that she will go down in history, not as a hero, but in the same regard as those who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. While you are standing behind all the other amendments, check out #14!
farmgirljo, I don’t believe in hell, but if I did, you’d damn sure be going there. What a hate filled woman you are. I pity you.
I’m going to start out by saying that there are two important things that people need to take into consideration for this particular issue. First, different Christian denominations have their own beliefs on moral issues. I think it’s really important that when someone posts their beliefs, they do not only identify themselves as Christians, but which denomination they are associated with. Second, I’ve seen this with all denominations. People post that their denomination believes X. But they’re really posting what their interpretation is of this belief. They haven’t actually sat down with their religious leader and asked, how do we believe this should be handled.
With that being said, I am Catholic. About a year ago my priest instructed us on how to handle a certain issue which I’m going to explain here and how I interpret that as to how we should apply that to this situation.
A while back, when obamacare came out, there was concern about our tax dollars and our healthcare costs being used to support programs for birth control and abortions. Both of which we’re strongly against. He did not suggest we quit our jobs or refuse to pay taxes. He suggested we write whoever is in charge of our benefits and request that we be offered a medical plan that was in line with our beliefs. We weren’t trying to force our plan on everyone else, just be given an option that catered to our own beliefs. He advised us that we should also write congress and request that our tax dollars not go to supporting these plans. He did not suggest we quit our jobs, refuse health care, refuse to pay taxes. In regards to those of us that had job descriptions that were changing in which we would be issuing these types of plans or performing abortions and applying birth control. He recommended we request a job transfer or to handle cases that did not include these. If our job description change was so severe that we would be doing something so extremely against our morals and we could not get an exception or a job change, then we were to look for another job. He didn’t say quit immediately, unless we were in the position to do so. But phrased it in a way that we should find another job and then quit. He even advised us to do the right thing and give our notice. God would understand the position we were in and forgive us. We weren’t sinning when we were following what our employer and government were forcing us to do these things. It’s in the Bible that God wants us to be good employees and good citizens. We were supposed to do things the right way. Request a transfer, write deciding bodies, etc.
So when it comes to Kim Davis, she should request that she not handle issuing licenses to same sex couples, or transfer out of this department altogether. She should write to congress requesting a change in the law. She should continue doing her job.
Now for those of her baking her a hypocrite due to her own divorces. It is her own sin to live with. Just because she, like all of us have sinned, does not mean that she should feel comfortable with acting sinfully in other areas.
Another point, I’m not sure which denomination she is in, but to my knowledge, I don’t know of any that will condemn her to hell for issuing marriage licenses. If she feels that she will go to hell for this, then she must also feel that she’s going to hell for her other sins. I thought that most Christian denominations believed in God’s forgiveness and that surely she would be eligible for God’s forgiveness for doing something that her government and employer were forcing her to do. Especially, if she feels like God is forgiving her for her marriages and divorces.
This is just my thoughts on the matter, based on my own experiences with the Catholic Church.
You all are not christian. Because if you read the bible Jesus was against hyprocrites unrighteous and non humble unrepentent sinners like yourselves
You’re right, I’m not a Christian (like millions of others in this country). Tiff, do you care what Mohammed said? That’s exactly how I feel about your Jesus.
The point each and every one of you have missed is Kim Davis is under oath to uphold protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America. I know by your comments that not one of you have read that document let alone know what it means to you and every citizen. First it describes in detail what each branch of governments responsibilities are. FYI we have a 3 branch government so that power is not concentrated in one branch. The Judicial branch does not have the authority to legislate laws. Those responsibilities belong ONLY to congress. The Judges made a ruling not law. Second in 2002 Kentucky Legislatures which do have the authority to create laws created a law and amended their state Constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman. Kim Davis would have broken the law had she issued a license as the 2002 law which defines marriage still stands. You would rather run with the propaganda than tell the truth. Shame on you. Nor did Kentucky provide Ms Davis with a civil union license. She was damn if she did and damn if she didn’t. If you are going to discuss what a elected official should and should not do at least have the decency to know WTF your speaking about.
@coachbarbo, I am a lawyer practicing appellate and constitutional law in the state of Michigan. Your diatribe is (pardon my language) bullshit. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it makes you sound not just foolish, but stupid. Go read the followup article on the Boeskool website about why you are wrong. If you don’t believe him or me, you need only look to the Supreme Court of the United States. You’re going to school them on constitutional law? Idiot.
What law did Kim break? What law did the Supreme Court use to make their decision. The Supreme Court does not make law, they interpret it. What law did they interpret? They didn’t interpret any law because there isn’t any law. Congress and the Senate has passed no such law about same sex marriage. Is the Supreme Court taking lessons from President Obama and just using administrative decision to interpret the law.Mike Hukabee says that there is no law, none has been passed and signed into law. If there is no law, why are we even having this discussion?
Are you responding to me, Tiff? Jesus was accepting and forgiving of all. Anyone that was truly repentant if their sins were forgiven. How am I a hypocrite and unrepentant?
I just said she should continue to do her job, request a change in job descriptions or a job transfer. Write congress to request a change in what she has an issue with. And that God would be understanding and forgiving of her current situation.
That’s the one thing where I think she has a case. I’m the first to admit ignorance when it comes to the judicial process. I’ve read comments where people say the supreme court has the right and some say they do not. I’ve seen it’s up to the state…and Kentucky hasn’t changed their stance on it.
The problem is that Kim isn’t denying the licenses based on the law. I’m hoping that if she has good legal council and she does in fact have grounds to deny the licenses based on the fact that a) the supreme court doesn’t have this right and/or (b) Kentucky hasn’t officially changed this guideline, that they will advise her to use this argument. I think if there is a basis for this argument, that it SHOULD be brought up in court because it’ll put the supreme court in its place.
So far, the only thing I’ve seen that she’s denying them the licenses is based on her religious values. And yes, we have freedom of religion. But in a government office, we have to follow the law. She chose to work in a government office and if the law is in fact that they are entitled to receive the license, she has to do her job. Just like you can’t work in a church and make up your own rules and decide you no longer believe in what the church does and you’re no longer going to follow the church’s guidelines and do your job, you can’t do that in a government office.
Now the fact that her job description changed and she can no longer follow it based on her morals is where it gets tricky. I’ve listed above what her options are. Just like if someone was Muslim and their beliefs are they can’t sell, purchase, serve, or drink alcohol. If they worked at a restaurant that did not serve these when they started, but then they changed and started serving alcohol, the Muslim would now be in a situation that they can no longer work there. The Muslim can’t force the restaurant to stop selling alcohol when he’s there. But they can find another job. Kim can’t force her office to stop following government guidelines and refuse to do her job. But as I said, I listed her options above when it comes to her morals. When it comes to whether or not she or the supreme court is breaking the law, that’s outside my knowledge base. I’d like to see it go to court on those grounds if she does have a case. I think that’s her best basis for refusal at this point.
John–Mike Huckabee says a lot of things. Very few of them are worth a fart in the wind. Respectfully.
You and that idiot Mike Huckabee are sore losers. Too bad.
Most of my comment below was towards your comment here. For some reason my replies aren’t posting or seem to disappear…..
Hey John, I wrote this for you…. You might as well read it. https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
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Bible may not speak of same sex marriage but says quite few things about man laying with man,etc..which I believe would happen in same sex marriage.Maybe u all need research more before trying to make others follow.This is not good.If you don’t know or understand,please do not mislead others
Lev 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.
Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Lev 21:5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.
These are right there in Leviticus, right along with her closely held beliefs that issuing a marriage license to same sex couples is a “Heaven or Hell decision”. If that is the case, and she is so devout and pious, then she should have also denied licenses to men who shaved their faces. Or women who cut their hair. How about the farmers and ranchers that grazed their cattle with sheep, or grew more than one crop each year. How about everyone who came in wearing a blended fabric? Did she turn THEM down because of her deeply held religious beliefs. No? Because if she truly followed the Scriptures then ALL of these groups should have been denied. If on the other hand she only denied service to gays, then she is just a bigot, a hypocrite, and a homophobe.
Kim Davis is an attention seeking phony.
Always has been.
Since even becoming a Christian, she promised to serve all people.
Well, we all know what a lie that was.
She has become an embarrassment to Kentucky and the state legislature needs to impeach her.
The sooner she is forgotten, the better.
George Vreeland Hill
God is love, and he has all of it planned out! Kim Davis is such a Godly woman, and I hope to have as much courage and bravery as her if it comes to it one day! We should not fight with the other people who do not believe, but try to help them understand! God wants us to love everyone, and not force our beliefs on others! We should pray over what God wants us to do, and try to be like Jesus! I love God, and I know he loves all! Love the person, hate the sin!!!!💙
This is the most arrogant, condescending response I’ve seen yet. “…try to help them…”? We don’t need your help. What we need is for you to stop being a homophobic bigot.
Congress makes the laws. The Judicial Branch interprets the laws. The Executive Branch enforces the laws. Just because the rich and powerful dropped a nobody from nowhere that has aliases and multi social security numbers in the white house, doesn’t give him the legality to make up his own laws and force those laws on the nation. He is a man put in the white house through fraud. In Indiana, people went to jail for illegally putting him on the primary ballot when he was not eligible due to not having enough signatures in each district. 31 states say marriage is between a man and a woman. Remember, the Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was fought because states were not being represented fairly in the government and wanted out. We don’t have to leave the United States, we just need to get rid of voter fraud. All the states that don’t require voter identification are the Obama states. Here in my state we have had ID cards made at the licence bureau since the late 80s. One person, one vote. Get rid of dictators that make their own laws for their own diabolical reasons.
Phyllis, you are being played. Here is something that might help you sort it all out: https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
I am divorce woman and I agree with you 100%. Kim Dave is not doing her job that she was elected for is insubordination and she should be fire just for that. she’s trying to enforce her religion on the people of Rowan County & anyone that should come and want to live in that county also did she let the people rowing county know her religious beliefs and that she was divorced four times before she was before being elected position. She should be fired after doing jail time for contempt of court.
No you don’t no what you talking about. she is godly woman and you arent. shes one of us and well see her in heaven. bunch of morons dont read bible.
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Hi theboeskool,
Thanks for writing this article. I admire your integrity to be intellectually honest here.
This piece so far from being a “Christian perspective,” it’s not even funny. You, sir are a charlatan.
Come on, Jim…. Some of the pictures are at least a little bit funny, right?
Speaking of charlatans, here is something you might enjoy. 🙂 https://theboeskool.com/2015/09/09/mike-huckabee-should-be-ashamed-of-himself/
Whoever the writer may be, you logic, biblical knowledge leads you to confusion and force you to write all the nonsense… working in a restaurant is a choice, working as a county clerk is election, writing this bullshit is ignorant…
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Can’t we all just get along like peas and carrots!!??
I rarely post to blogs, and, truth be told – I rarely read blogs and I suck at facebook. I am 60, so maybe that explains it. But I do regularly read your blog and feel compelled to post today. You have a voice that needs to be heard, not only in the American church but also to a generation of people who have given up on faith and God because of the very things you tend to speak out against. We (Christians) are seen as hateful, judgmental, intolerant, close-minded, and amongst the most non-graceful of people on earth. This grieves me deeply; I can only imagine how it must grieve the heart of God. Because the Jesus I follow is about a kingdom full of love and grace. I just wanted to write an encouraging word – because you do make a difference. Sadly – I am not sure you how much impact your voice will have in the minds of Christians who venomously oppose your views – but you DO help to tear down many walls that keep people from even considering Jesus, people who have written off faith, God, and Jesus because of what they see from the church. I want to say thank you for that. Thank you for the voice you bring. And my prayer is that the hateful blog postings you get at times don’t bring you down and that you can stay grounded and centered in the love of Jesus.
Wow Kathy, that means a whole lot to me. Thank you for taking the time to post some encouraging words. I have fun writing, and if it makes a little bit of difference here and there, all the better.
Thank again.
Just FYI… there are two Kathys commenting on here. I’m not Christian, but I agree with every word the other Kathy said above. Bless you, Chris, for being the voice of sanity and reason, and for maintaining your dignity and sense of humor in the face of all the hate and vitriol.
It does not matter if Jesus said anything about homosexuality, He did not talk about sleeping with an animal, does that mean it’s ok? God talked those 2 sins in the old testament. Anways, this lady is COMPLETELY wrong, why? Because she’s a sinner, she has faults, just like every single human being. You know Jesus did say, He said in Matthews 7:3, to look at the log you got in your eye before helping the person with the speck on theirs. This woman needs to focus on her faults before she goes and starts judging someone else’s. She’s not perfect and God sees her the same He sees that couple with LOVE and they all have a chance at salvation if they believe in Jesus Christ.
This article is highly errant. I stopped reading after reason #2 because the Bible DOES refer to the sin of homosexuality in many places. (Leviticus, Romans, etc.) As far as living out what God wants, it’s not that simple to just “get another job.” The homosexual lifestyle is all around us, and pervades every part of society. It seems the real issue is whether or not people accept God’s laws. Those who defend sin (as God defines is, not people) have a heart problem, and need grace because without the Holy Spirit they are incapable of making decisions that aren’t just based on the shallowness of mere emotions. It is the Holy Spirit who discerns right from wrong. From a scientific aspect, homosexuals will eventually die off, anyway, because nature does not allow them to reproduce. According to natural selection, the lifestyle is detrimental to the natural course of life. If a global natural disaster were to occur, voiding any type of technological or scentific advances (which is a very real possibility), homosexuals would be the first to go extinct.
Unless the Earth was hit with some sort of glitter asteroid, right Susan?
You do know that I didn’t say anything about the Bible referring to homosexuality as a sin, right? I said that the Bible says nothing about same-sex marriage. There is a difference there… Do you understand that? Technically, the Bible seems to only be against same-sex, male/male sexual contact, if you want to be literal. It’s all about “men lying with other men” in Leviticus, so lesbians are okay Biblically, if you want to be really literal. And again, if you’re being REALLY literal, the Bible actually says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about same-sex attraction (or homosexuality, as we’ve come to know it). It says some things about same-sex ACTIONS, but nothing about being in a loving, committed, same-sex relationship that happens to be non-sexual…. Would you be for same-sex marriage if the marriage is between two men who are too old to have sex? What about two women who promise you not to “exchange natural relations for those that are contrary to nature” as Romans says? But then again, we see homosexual behavior all over nature, so…. Would you, could you, in a house? Could you, would you, with a mouse?
Are you still even reading what I wrote, or did you stop reading because you got to something you disagreed with again? I read all of what you wrote, but I’m not afraid of listening to people who believe differently than me…. That seems like a really good strategy for STAYING EXACTLY THE SAME for your whole life. Wouldn’t that be so sad?
Theboeskool,
The Bible does describe marriage as being between a man and a woman. It may not speak of same sex marriage being a sin, but it does list homosexual acts as being a sin. The Bible doesn’t list marrying animals a sin either, but sex with animals is a sin. So, by your reasoning that since it’s ok for same sex to marry since there’s not a specific passage in the Bible against them to marry (although as I just said, it does describe marriage as between a man and woman), just not have sex, then it’s ok for people to marry animals.
As for two same sex people to marry and not have sex….That’s called friendship. Yes, there are married couples out there that can’t have sex for various purposes…accidents and medical conditions may render someone incapable, but that’s one of the purposes of marriage. It’s the only way that two people can have sex without sin, is to be married.
As for two people that promise not to have sex, just get married. Marriage defined by law, needs to be consummated. So if they’re promising not to have sex, they can’t consummated the marriage and aren’t married until it’s been consummated.
Hey Tiffany–
Marriage defined by law does not need to be consummated. Two 90 year old people can get married and not have sex. I could have my penis blown off by an IED and still get married.
Marriage also is not just about producing children. There are plenty of people who are unable to have children who get married every day.
Apart from the Leviticus passages (which call A LOT of things “abominations”), the Bible describes three different kinds of relationships: Healthy hetero relationships, Unhealthy hetero relationships, and Unhealthy homosexual relationships…. Just because it doesn’t contain language describing HEALTHY same-sex relationships, doesn’t mean that such a thing doesn’t exist within God’s plan.
One thing that you’d have to really stretch to find in the Bible is a description of a plan for women to be leaders in the Church. Does this mean that God NEVER planned for women to be leaders? Some people think so, but I am not one of them. The Bible records Jesus saying “I have so many other things I have to tell you, but you can’t bear them right now” as one of the final things Jesus said to his disciples. Since then, the “Spirit of Truth” has guided us away from the necessity of Kosher laws. It continues to guide us away from a patriarchal, misogynistic societal way of viewing femininity. It has guided us away from being able to stomach slavery, and it continues to guide us away from the evils of white supremacy and racism.
Is it really that hard to imagine that the Spirit of Truth would lead us into the knowledge that committed, same-sex relationships–and even marriage–could be every bit as blessed by God as my marriage?
Susan,
Homosexuals won’t die off simply because they can’t reproduce. You’re aware that ALL current homosexuals were created because a heterosexual couple had a baby. Homosexual is not a species. If what you say were to happen and ALL current living homosexuals were to ‘die out,’ another one could be born TOMORROW because they are created by heterosexual couples.
@Susan, there have been homosexuals since the beginning of time, and two heterosexuals produce a homosexual child. Your comments make no sense.
Susan, do you wear garments of mixed fibers? Do you plant more than one type of seed in your garden? Have you ever eaten shellfish? Touched leather? Worked on a Sunday? Have you ever cut your hair? Does your husband shave his face? Because if you can answer yes to just one of these questions then you are as guilty in the eyes of the Lord as homosexuals. Take all of Leviticus, or take none. Christianity is not dealers choice, either you believe a literal interpretation or not.
That’s the Old Testament….. We follow the New Testament. Homosexuality is still a sin in the NT.
Again, Paul’s letters to the Romans and the Corinthians does not describe healthy, committed, Christ-centered same-sex relationships. He is writing to people who are still going to these freaky fertility temples where people have sex with everything that moves. He is not directing his words at the gay couples who I go to Church with.
Paul also said that it’s better to not marry at all… And then he allowed for it and said it’s better than “burning with desire.” But then again, Paul’s reasoning for this was that he believed that Jesus was going to return within his lifetime…. So Paul gets it wrong sometimes just like the rest of us.
I stopped reading as soon as you said the Bible says nothing about homosexual marriage and when you brought up divorce. A simple Google search of scriptures on homosexuals will prove that statement wrong. Also, Kim Davis became a Christian after her divorces. I’m thankful that I serve a God who is full of grace and died on the cross that my sins are forgiven.
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Amen.
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2018 brings forth the majority (and moral) decision to vote out Kim Davis, the bigot that caused this ruckus. An ironical Amen to that!
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