As you probably have heard, Target issued a statement recently reiterating its stand for inclusivity at its stores. And you have probably seen a bunch of the blowback that came after the statement was released, but I’m betting most of you have not seen or read the actual statement they released… Here it is:
Recent debate around proposed laws in several states has reignited a national conversation around inclusivity. So earlier this week, we reiterated with our team members where Target stands and how our beliefs are brought to life in how we serve our guests.
Inclusivity is a core belief at Target. It’s something we celebrate. We stand for equality and equity, and strive to make our guests and team members feel accepted, respected and welcomed in our stores and workplaces every day.
We believe that everyone—every team member, every guest, and every community—deserves to be protected from discrimination, and treated equally. Consistent with this belief, Target supports the federal Equality Act, which provides protections to LGBT individuals, and opposes action that enables discrimination.
In our stores, we demonstrate our commitment to an inclusive experience in many ways. Most relevant for the conversations currently underway, we welcome transgender team members and guests to use the restroom or fitting room facility that corresponds with their gender identity.
We regularly assess issues and consider many factors such as impact to our business, guests and team members. Given the specific questions these legislative proposals raised about how we manage our fitting rooms and restrooms, we felt it was important to state our position.
Everyone deserves to feel like they belong. And you’ll always be accepted, respected and welcomed at Target.
That is it… THAT! That is what people are upset over. Please–If you just skimmed over that press release, please go back and read it. Read the words, and then try to imagine someone being so angry at those words that they would start a Target boycott. Now imagine almost 800,000 of those people walking around. And after you get done wiping the tears away, keep the box of tissues handy–just in case ignorance and bigotry make you cry, because now the internet is saturated with garbage like the following video:
That was Greg Locke, pastor of a church called Global Vision Bible Church, which is located in the next town over from where I live, here in the buckle of the Bible Belt. He rose to internet stardom by suggesting that kids here in Tennessee “Take an F” in history rather than learn about Islam as part of their history courses, and he has gained quite a following by courting ignorance and hatred and fear. But it is not just King James preaching, pistol-packing pastors who are up in arms about Target’s attempts at an inclusive environment… Yoga pant-wearing moms are really mad too. Mad enough to [gasp!] cut up their Target credit card:
I mean… Millions of views. Her kids play tennis RIGHT NEXT DOOR, you guys!
Listen, my wife and I have three kids. We’ve brought our kids to Target probably hundreds of times. When they were little, you know what we DIDN’T do? We didn’t send them into the bathrooms by themselves. We’d go with them. And I don’t spend a lot of time in women’s rest rooms, but as far as I can tell, most women’s rest rooms have stalls that are designed for one person, right? So unless they start having two-person stalls, my wife is not going to have to worry about men in dresses watching her pee. And as for me, the only place anyone might catch a glimpse of anything is at the urinal… And that is highly unlikely. Guys at urinals are usually fairly discreet. Other than the occasional elementary school sword fight, I can count on one hand the number of penises (other than mine) I’ve seen while taking a leak in a public restroom. And I’m pretty sure those dudes were TRYING to show everyone their goods. Anyway, as I wrote about before, it doesn’t even make sense to have a policy of forcing people to use restrooms that match their assigned gender at birth… You would end up with situations like this picture:
It’s easy to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all, but really–despite the success or failure of these “bathroom bills”–the real damaging part is the fear-mongering that goes on. And that is not even close to being funny. What is happening in all these videos and blogs calling for boycotts–either subtly or overtly–is that they are equating trans folks with perverts and child molesters. To quote “pastor” Greg Locke, “What you are ‘Targeting’ are perverts, pedophiles, people who are going to harm our children.” You guys realize that young boys are way more likely to get molested by men than women, right? Do you still let your sons go to the bathroom in public restrooms? And it just breaks my heart that ones trying to caricature people who are transgender as diabolical deviants are the ones who are called to love their enemies… “Christians.” The only thing diabolical is the demonization of people who are just looking for a safe place to pee.
There’s just so much hypocrisy surrounding this whole issue. If your kid is going to get molested or sexually assaulted, it’s probably at least 1000 times more likely that the perpetrator is going to be a church youth worker than a stranger in a public restroom. Not to mention the fact that the people who are planning on a misdemeanor offense deterring deviant child molesters who are dedicated to committing a felony, are basically the same people who hold a very firm “criminals don’t obey laws” stance when it comes to gun regulations. And the ironic part about it is that Target’s policy has not changed… They just wanted to put out a reminder, and Christians went ballistic. But I’ve got some news for you: You’ve been peeing next to trans folks for a long time.
It almost seems like people in the Church are hoping to push a PR campaign that reads: “Christians: We are okay with corporations who pay their workers poverty wages, destroy small businesses, and exploit child workers at basically slave-labor wages, but when those corporations endeavor to treat people with respect–regardless of their orientation or gender identity–we lose our freaking minds.” I hate that this stuff always gets dropped on Christians. There are so many Christians–people like me–whose communities are inclusive and affirming to people in the LGBT community. And our numbers are growing and growing. One of my blogging heroes, Jen Hatmaker (a women of immense integrity, talent, and humor, who just keeps on getting it right), wrote this lovely status the other day:
She’s already paying a price for taking a stand to love without condition. But Church leaders are steadily coming around to the long tradition of standing with oppressed people. The Church I attend has been there for a while. No one in our Church cares when the trans members of our community use the restroom of their identity. Just like straight members of our church don’t mind sharing a bathroom with gay folks–because bathrooms are just where people go to pee. We’re just glad they are coming to worship with us, after the absolutely horrible way that the Church has treated them over the years. There are so many LGBT folks who love Jesus with everything in them… And it makes sense, because Jesus loved the outcast. He ate with the “unclean.” He touched the untouchables. And the Pharisees hated him for it. He even washed the feet of the one who was going to betray him… It’s time the Church started looking more like Jesus, and less like the Pharisees.
At the end of my posts, I usually give people a chance to help support this blog, but today I wanted to give you a chance to support the Church I call home. It’s called GracePointe, and it is a really good place. Because of what we believe about God, a little over a year ago GracePointe took a stand for full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters. A lot of people ended up leaving… They have had to make drastic cuts all over the place, and they are struggling financially. If you are interested in helping support a place that is working to change the reputation of the Church from one of exclusion, division, and alienation to one of inclusion, unity, and love, you can GIVE RIGHT HERE. Or you could just come visit, and find out about who we are. Thanks!
This is such a non-issue, but I’m afraid in saying that it appears I’m dismissing the issue. I’m not. The issue isn’t that so few people are affected by this that we can “afford” to turn a blind eye. The issue is that we are given the choice to be kind (at the very least), somehow emulating Jesus (which is a goal of Christians, I’m told), and we are not. We are reacting with bizarrely disproportionate hatred.
I just don’t get this, at all.
I became a Christian in my teens, and the “Four Spiritual Laws” were a large part of the conversion experience, laying things out simply. The church I attended (Reformed) stressed the Gospel and Jesus and worship. I changed church affiliations to a more demonstrative one, but even there the church centered on Jesus and love and faithfulness and evangelism. I am back in a Reformed-tradition church, and they stress Jesus and evangelism and community.
Nowhere were we told that sexuality and sexual orientation was “the” thing we had to focus on. Nowhere am I instructed from the pulpit that the central defining thing for Christianity is our loathing for anyone who is not 100% straight.
The Bible doesn’t teach this.
Jesus doesn’t teach this.
The Church Fathers don’t teach this.
The orthodoxy and orthopraxy of the church don’t teach this.
The doctrines and dogmas and teachings (yes, I know, all variants of each other) don’t teach this.
The witness of 2000 years of church history doesn’t teach this.
What I’m told and taught and believe is that the central thing is Jesus Christ, crucified and resurrected, who brings us to God and empowers us to live in love and hope and clear certainty of a resurrection.
Where in all this is the requirement that we go to Level 11 in our hatred and fear and exclusion of anyone who is not perfectly in alignment with some imagined pure binary sexual orientation, something that does not exist in nature itself?
People who are not pegging 0 or 1 on the continuum of sexual orientation and experience are being ejected from the circle of love and commitment we call “church” by people who want an ever-tightening exclusion of “those people,” whether they are gays or vegans or smokers or wine-drinkers or liberals or even Democrats.
What is going on with the church of Christ here? How did this become the hill to die on?
The Bible explicitly calls for faithfulness to the care of the poor, the sick, the needy, widows, and orphans. Explicitly. We don’t do this broadly, not at all. We’re called to love the lost. Explicitly. LOVE the lost. Not lecture them. Not exclude them. Not hector them. Not shame them. The Christ-love of God to us is exactly the love we are to have to others, and unless I am missing someone, no one with a healthy image of God suffers any of this so-called “love” which is purely sanctimonious lecturing when they go to worship God in church to feel a touch of his love. We as Christians seem to believe that God’s love to us is unconditional and accepting, even when we are hopelessly distracted and grossly disobedient–we go to God because “he always takes us in.” And somehow while we then think that we are to “love” sinners the same way, our behavior is hatred and fear and rejection–nothing like God’s love at all.
As far as marriage is concerned, for 1970 years the church believed adamantly, based on Scripture, that divorce was an abomination–and that barrier was broken with ease in the 70s. Reagan signed a no-fault divorce law into effect, and the rest of the Christian nation followed with almost no pushback; here we are today with divorce seen as a bad thing, but not an exclusionary thing, like it was for centuries. (I’ll admit I don’t think the long-term church view of divorce was sound; I’m making the point, however, that there is far more support for a strict view of divorce than there is for our current fascination with sexual orientation.)
No such emphasis upon binary gender behavior is a requirement in the church, but this is now a battleground? That somehow we “fear” going into a public restroom because Teh Gays will be there, or Teh Trans, or whatever?
I’m just so sorry for my Christian brothers and sisters who are being whipped up into hatred right now. Their church leaders are failing them. Their church families are manipulating them. Their sense of moral obligation to God’s standards are off track–rather than loving the lost and healing the sick, they are virulent in their condemnation of others they don’t understand or accept.
I’m not losing my faith in Jesus. Far from it. I still believe, adamantly, in the gospel of Jesus.
I’m just so frustrated at how a community of the followers of Jesus can be so easily side-tracked from the important things.
It is so frustrating, isn’t it?
Very well said, Stephen.
The real Civil Rights used boycotts and the were led by Christian leaders such as Martin Luther King and Medgar Evers. The position you all take us that it is UN Christian to do. That is absurd given the history of this country. It was ok when the musicians and actresses boycott but NOT the Christians??? The hypocrisy is absolutely sickening.
JESUS told the Pharasees that they were of their father the devil–scripture. JESUS said that the world HATED Him.
John 15:18-25King James Version (KJV)
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Where are your scriptural references that back up that Christians must embrace sin? Jesus said RESIST the devil and he will flee from you. Scripture also state abstain from all APPEARANCE of evil. Read your Bible. Then preach what it actually says. The whole of it.
But which version should I use, Dita?
I can’t make heads or tails of your response. I’m sure you are trying to tell us something important, but what is it, exactly? That we should make sure the people on the margins know they’re not loved, not wanted, rejected and expelled from society by the good and true and right?
If so, I need to tell you: they don’t need further instructions from Christians that they’re not loved or wanted. They fully understand the animus directed against them.
Jesus reserved his harshest words for those who wanted religion with none of the obedience and service. I don’t claim to be someone who will never be judged by Jesus; I am simply someone who, when he meets Jesus, will know he’s done as much as he can to be compassion and inclusive and patient like Jesus.
Christianity is a very interesting religion to me, in that it has a Savior of such great attractiveness, and yet so many who claim to follow him who do so little to represent his character. I would think that there would be far fewer Christ-followers than there are, given the depth of commitment required to follow him. It would appear that there are many who want the the gloss of being called “Christian” and yet do not have the behavior or character that matches their desires.
Do not compare a boycott where brave people risked thier lives and safety to GAIN rights for themselves and others to cowards who rant on the internet and harass retail employees in order to TAKE rights away from others. It’s the least Christian thing to do.
“Bizarrely disproportionate hatred” is the perfect description of what’s going on.
Very well said.
So,it’s common sense to have guys walking into high school girls locker rooms in various stages of undress.There are millions walking around that thinks that’s stupid.
Thanks Jim. There are also quite a few people who think it’s stupid to not put spaces after their punctuation… But here we are.
Good answer.Ignore what the subject is.
Alright, I’ll respond sincerely (even though you did it again).
The policy that Target is advocating has nothing whatsoever to do with “guys walking into high school girls locker rooms in various stages of undress.” If there is a person in high school who was born male but Identifies as female in gender (with all that entails), the boy’s locker room is about the least safe place she could be.
Do you really think that a person is going to go through the intensely difficult process of transitioning–likely alienating friends and family and church and the rest–just to catch a glimpse of other people’s privates in locker rooms? You’ve heard of the internet, right? Anyone who wants to see some naked genitalia can do that any time they want.
You see, this is what people do: They demonize and try to make it into a license for perverts to walk in and ogle the opposite sex’s naughty bits. It’s just not. And any attempt to turn it into that is dishonest. Or dumb.
What a bunch of malarkey in this article.
Dismissing a point you disagree with is easy. Countering it with data and legitimate research is far more difficult. Chris’ post is well-thought out and loving malarkey but if you come up with thoughtful criticism I bet other commenters would appreciate your contributions.
No use arguing with an idiot.
Thanks for stopping by,Jim.Have a good day.
Your punctuation/space usage was gold.
After following the comments and responses,that made me snort laugh.For real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ there are many more like this one.
You are right on target…as usual. You exemplify what Christianity is supposed to be.
Your voice is welcomed and appreciated. You are a light shining in the darkness.
Thank you, Michelle! Love you.
I guess the Chik-fli-a boycott was Christian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzwMJAFWLtQ Here is another one.
If you learned to type on a typewriter, you’re going to hate what I say next: Do not put two spaces after a period. Don’t do it. Just use one.
I know. I was taught to use two spaces after a period in my high school typing class too, but you know what? It’s not that hard to break the habit. I haven’t been tempted to type two spaces for decades. It’s not like quitting smoking. I don’t find myself in nostalgic typewriting situations and suddenly get hit by an unexpected urge to type two spaces.
The modern and easy-to-follow style is to put one space after a period..
– See more at: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/two-spaces-after-a-period#sthash.UQA2Bmg1.dpuf
Unfortunately working as an investigator, a lot of these megan’s law registrants look for opportunity to commit these crimes. I have worked with countless victims who have been assaulted in restrooms and now by making it an open policy it is opening the door. The stall door doesn’t stop them, nor does a parent being present. It will be their legal right to be in the restroom that they will utilize and utilize the excuse that they feel like whatever gender suits them that day so that you can’t remove them from the restroom. Most sex offenders rely on the ability to intimidate and exert power by creating fear in their victims. So although a majority of you want to be kind to some who feel a struggle with society, it is opening a loophole for sex offenders. They will use that loophole. Just like they take the opportunity to film up women and childrens clothing at public events, they will bring cameras into the womens restroom, a place that was once forbidden. Part of what will egg them on is the fact that you can’t remove them from standing in front of even that crack in the stall door, or leering next to you because they now have power. It honestly has nothing to do with transgender and nothing to do with being Christian. Whether or not you want to believe that about the society we live in, is up to you. It exists and for those of us who fight this battle on a daily basis, this is an idea that is going to have severe consequences. That’s reality. If you want an idea of what people will be interested, just look online at the sites that peddle films, sites that sell photos of women online in restrooms. They are making millions because there are so many interested in being in the women’s restroom.
And what you’re saying, Amy, is that what made these crimes possible was laws allowing trans folks to use the bathrooms with which they identify? Is that correct?
You’d think that–with your years of experience–you’d have more than just anecdotal evidence. Because all of the states which have trans-friendly laws on the books are saying the exact opposite of what you seem to be saying…
Which is what, exactly? That people are committing felonies because we don’t have misdemeanor laws attempting to prevent them? Is that right?
I am flummoxed…
How about we focus on the sick, mentally unstable brothers and sisters in this world that are in so much pain from their own upbringing and/or addictions and ptsd, etc? Did you ever think that we should focus on treating the ROOT cause, not the symptoms? Much like allopathic medicine which likes to give you medication for Diabetes Type II Milates instead of having you heal your body naturally with exercise, dietary changes, and stress relief practices like meditation, yoga, tai chi, and qi gong. The people that commit these crimes are so emptied of self-love and self-worth, that they commit crimes upon their brothers and sisters out of ignorance and pain. THEY are in SO MUCH PAIN. Let’s focus on HEALING each other, instead of casting each other farther away. 1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
Heterosexual males who are sexual predators will indeed use public bathrooms as places to perpetrate. However, they tend to not dress up like a girl. It’s much easier than that. They just perpetrate. Like they do in bus stations, libraries, churches…. But in most cases, the home of thier victim or thier own home. Because in most cases, the perp knows the victim. Transgendered persons are the most likely to be sexually victimized. As an advocate for victims, shouldn’t you be advocating for thier right to safely pee?
http://abc7news.com/archive/7739509/ This never happens,does it?
This act was and is still illegal, and is not what Target’s statement addresses! It is unrelated to inviting trans people to use the bathroom with which they identify. No one has made any comments defending the behavior covered in that article.
It is exactly what Target is doing.
You guys stop trying to reason with Jim. He’s not even listening.
Because there’s no use arguing with an idiot, right?
We can probably stop calling people names now.
Transgender people may have been using the stall next to us for years but they had to be convincing. I don’t think many people would go to the extreme of cross dressing to get a peek at the opposite sex or a child. I do believe allowing anyone who claims to be transgendered to use whatever restroom they choose will increase the risk of women being recoded or molested.
Why increase that risk at all? If the transgendered have already been using the restrooms then why change laws? I’m a Christian but I will no longer do business with Target based on the fact that this should not be allowed anywhere.
If one women is raped or one child molested in ten years because of this foolishness it’s not worth it. Make a gender neutral one person restroom. Let them keep sneaking in as you claim they have been. Do not allow anyone who wants to walk in any restroom.
It’s so sad that we have gotten to the point that people think they can argue about things like this. Your sarcasm is popular because people are depraved not because it makes you intelligent. While I’m not boycotting Target based on my Christianity there’s nothing unChristian about standing up to protect people from ignorant liberals who can’t see the forest for the trees.
Finally a brain in the crowd.
Good Christian sense. Too bad so many “christians” don’t have that. I am one of the lucky LgbT ones who get support from my church?
I love shopping at Target without people like you! The bigot free atmosphere only enhances the shopping experience! A big thanks to you!
Good, it won’t be crowded.Closing in on a million that don’t think it’s a good idea for grown men to be in woman’s bathroom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrrBlS7NLtU isolated incident ?
Please stop posting this fear-mongering bullshit on my page. The kind of thing talked about in these ridiculous videos (and the deviant, predatory behavior of the people they are talking about) is nothing that would be able to be prevented by trying to force trans people into the restrooms of their opposite identifying gender. Stop. Seriously. I’ve had enough. You’ve made your point, and it is objectively awful. Go away.
What TheBoeskool said. Stop living in fear Jim. There is so much love in this world. Spread positive energy, not fear and hate. You are better than this. You are loved. You are supported. You can chose the reality you live in, and when you chose positivity and love, everything around you changes. Try it. I love you my brother.
You are missing the point brother. The point isn’t fear over transgender people, its concern over real heterosexual perverts who will CLAIM to be transgender so they can wander into the restroom behind some unsuspecting teenage girl with their upskirt/understall cameras.
I’m not afraid of using a bathroom with a homosexual person, but I am concerned about my two daughters being in a restroom when a pervert heterosexual male posing as a confused transgendered person wants to be in that same space.
Chris, those sad and unhealthy people were doing it before these laws came into place. Those people will do it no matter what law is in place, unless they receive the love and healing their soul and spirit so deeply needs. This is why young children should be with parents when using the bathroom in a pubic place. It’s that simple Law or no law. Don’t want that to happen? Walk with your child to the restroom. You cannot control the situation if you are not there, but you can be proactive to avoid it happening in the first place by being there. Sending you love and light, and protective vibes for your precious little ladies.
What kind of reasoning is this? Because the current policy doesn’t stop sexual exploitation 100% then people shouldn’t be concerned if a new policy makes it easier for said crime to be perpetrated? Not only that, people are being told this concern is not Christian. I disagree. Trying to reduce the exploitation of humans is very Christian.
The new policy does away for the need to disguise ones self as a woman to get into a woman’s bathroom. All you have to do is claim to be one. If you consider how one is dressed then you are profiling. Which is also a no no.
If you are that scared, you should just have your daughters not use public restrooms, Because heterosexual men and heterosexual woman will continue to perpetrate in bathrooms without needing to dress up to gain access. In fact, sexual offenders have no restraints on public restrooms. They have more rights than transgendered non offenders. Your daughters are 8 times more likely to be abused by someone they already know than a stranger in a bathroom, but if you are that fearful, you should not have your family use public restrooms rather than take rights away from innocent people.
Are you not concerned that before this, those pedophiles/deviants/criminals were in the bathroom with your sons?
Just like the movie..,,The boeskool can’t take the truth.
I wish there was some sort of magic mirror I could put in from of you, Jim. Alas…
Why do liberals talk love and kisses until you show them proof that they are wrong, then it’s cursing, calling you a fearmonger, racist, bigot, homophobe, and anything else they can think of?
Just wanted to say Jim, I love you and I am sorry you are hurting. I am sorry you are feeling alone. It’s ok. You will be ok. Fear causes so much anxiety, right?! I don’t identify as a liberal, or any other political term. I identify as a loving human. Your sister in life. So, my brother, I will continue to send out vibes of harmony and love.
It’s a bummer you are so closed minded though, and bent on “being right”. There is no right in this, there is opinion, and there are facts. Facts are like statistics.
Like this statistic: “According to a 2003 National Institute of Justice report, 3 out of 4 adolescents who have been sexually assaulted were victimized by someone they knew well (page 5).” which can be found here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/194972.pdf
I would encourage you to take an opportunity to learn and educate yourself so that you can be more accurate with your posts, comments, and opinions. It will also help you to release all the anxiety and negative thought pattern you must be harnessing inside. What a weight to carry.
Again, there is no right or wrong, it’s just your opinion. The cool thing is, opinions can change, and often do as we educate ourselves on all sides, not just “our” side. It’s ok to change your mind, your opinion, and to open your heart to others. Most importantly, opening our hearts to ourselves! Self love is the biggest gift you can give yourself, and others. When you shine, we all shine.
Ugh. Right is wrong and wrong is right. Men can be women and women can be men. There is no truth, truth is whatever you want to believe. Hate mongers call men men and women women. How can they be so ignorant? The foolishness is beyond comprehension.
Can you explain what you mean by your statement, that right is wrong and wrong is right?
It seems very broad and sweeping, and it’s also unclear as to whom you’re directing your observation.
Alia and Mark,I can’t tell which one is the most incoherent.
It is a shame, and also boring, that your reply is so short. It makes me wonder if you even read my comment. Also, why no spaces with your punctuation? That in itself is incoherent. 🙂 Wishing you all the self love your heart can hold. Best to you.
Hey Alia thank you for spreading so much love.
With love like yours, I don’t need enemies.You Trannys sure have a thing about spaces.Worry about the one between your ears.
Okay, Jim. That’s the end of you commenting here. Take care.
This is a dips(*! article. The real victims are the victims of human trafficking, molestation, and rape, not transgenders. Target’s policy makes it easier for the freaks out there to score victims. We just had a littler girl in our town raped because a predator got access to the girl’s rest room. This isn’t about transgenders, it’s about all the mindless idiots who would rather feel good about themselves by accepting this inane move by Target so they won’t have to worry about being called a homophobe. or bigot. Mindless cretans.
I know! Those people from Crete! Paul even warned about them.
With that said, a story such as your without a link to verify it is just smersh.
As I read your post, and all the accompanying commentary, I wrestled, like I’ve done a lot this past week, with what’s the solution? What is the best way to handle this so that those who need protection are protected. It doesn’t matter if we agree or disagree with the bathroom (which why aren’t they called restroom? People don’t generally bathe in public facilities) regulations. What is the best thing to do to protect us all: women, boys, girls, and men? The “truth” that I’ve seen debated so much comes down to this: we are all on the spectrum, somewhere. And we all deserve protection when we are most vulnerable; that state definitely occurs when we are using the restroom.
Have you ever been in a Bucc-ee’s? It’s huge, HUGE I tell you.
They, the stores, have awesome restroom facilities. They are HUGE. The stalls are floor to almost ceiling and very roomie; no cracks to peek through. There are rarely lines, I’ve yet to see one. Parents can take their children with them into the stall and have plenty of room to take care of restroom business.
Have you ever watched Alley McBeal? They had a gender-less restroom in the office.
Everyone used the same facilities, washed their hands, had really odd conversations, and went about their business.
I keep thinking- having gender-less facilities is probably much safer than not. More people moving in out of the same place, lessening the opportunities for the “privacy” needed to assault a person. Upping the risk of being caught- because I’m thinking those who choose to assault don’t want to be caught, uh, in flagrante delicto. If someone is intent on assault do they not look for opportunities to corner their victim in a secluded place? And, I’m thinking of a little girl being in a park alone, are they really going to be discouraged by a women’s only sign when there is no one about in the first place? Which has the higher probability? Safety or un-safety in numbers?
I’ve wrestled with this topic for a while- what’s the solution? I’m thinking… to really be inclusive we need to stop dividing. We need to examine these situations, public restrooms, locker-rooms, changing/fitting rooms, etc., and find the answer that removes the exclusivity while retaining public privacy. The women’s restroom at Bucc-ee’s clearly shows it can be done.
The religious, psychology, gender, change debates are distractions, they ARE valuable-somewhat- but they are preventing us from reaching resolution on such a non-important issue. It is possible to retain your privacy in a public situation and much of it has to do with the way you AND those around you act and react. And legislation that requires either all public facilities become gender-less within a specific time-frame or provide tighter security measures. There are things we can do other than say NO! There are ways around this… if we really wanted to try.
Chris – “You’ve been peeing next to trans folks for a long time.” you’re right but the trans lgbt community are forcing these issues to the forefront. In most places/most cases we’da been just fine with the way it was but nnooo the LGBT community is never satisfied… always pushing for more. Now folks with common sense have had enough. “If your kid is going to get molested or sexually assaulted, it’s probably at least 1000 times more likely that the perpetrator is going to be a church youth worker than a stranger in a public restroom.” I think you’re exaggerating but partly right…. so does that mean we should elliminate speed limits on highways because after all the #1 cause of accidents is distracted driving, not speeding? Your logic would say this.. SMH. ” Jesus loved the outcast.” You’re right again but He also told them to ‘Go and sin no more.’ Regarding your transgender photos – These “scare samples” mean nothing to people with a brain and common sense. The people you’re depicting have a lot greater issues in life than deciding where to pee. There is no law that will cure their ills and no law that will make them happy, because they have not come to grips with who they are and how they were created. Why is it OK to discriminate against the 99% because the .0001 percent moan, groan, and complain expecting the world to stop and bow at their feet? Thankfully people with common sense who are comfortable in their own skin but not comfortable with an open bathroom policy are fighting back. We have been pushed over the edge. There have been incredible rights given to the LGBT (owe and now also add the letters “QIA” in there. We’ll soon likely be adding the whole alphabet in there including “D” for dog) community, but they are never satisfied… always thirsting for more no matter whose rights they trample. Chris – I admire you and your churches position on loving all people… I really do… yet you regularly bash Christians who hold traditional values. I’ll admit I don’t understand this. And yes I signed the Target Boycott (but you already knew that). One of the reasons our country is in the mess we’re in is because Christians often haven’t taken a stand so yes, it’s refreshing to see we can make a difference. It’s not just the Liberal Left that can force change in our society. And whether Target will admit it or not they are feeling the heat for their choice to be so inclusive that they actually offend and discriminate against a very large swath of their customers. Yes as Christians we can’t fight every battle but I won’t feel guilty in trying to make a difference where I can.
1. “You’ve been peeing next to trans folks for a long time.” you’re right but the trans LGBT community are forcing these issues to the forefront.
Actually, no. The issue is that everything was fine until the straight community started thinking it wasn’t fair to deny Americans equal civil rights. Then people opposed to equal civil rights got scared, and started a campaign to undo the attempts to be fair towards our fellow Americans and fellow human beings.
2. In most places/most cases we’da been just fine with the way it was but nnooo the LGBT community is never satisfied… always pushing for more.
To quote the great Jackie Robinson “A man shouldn’t have to ask for what’s rightfully his.” LGBT (and others) who are not “satisfied” are saying this: “We want the same things you have. If you can go into a store or restaurant or hotel or service station or bakery or flower shop or business and get fair treatment in spite of your straightness, we should be able to get exactly the same levels of service in spite of our non-straightness. That’s all it is—saying that “we want the same stuff you get.”
3. Now folks with common sense have had enough.
Not everyone who is against LGBT equality does so due to common sense. The vast majority of the reaction is based upon fear, hatred, and ignorance.
4. “If your kid is going to get molested or sexually assaulted, it’s probably at least 1000 times more likely that the perpetrator is going to be a church youth worker than a stranger in a public restroom.” I think you’re exaggerating but partly right…. so does that mean we should eliminate speed limits on highways because after all the #1 cause of accidents is distracted driving, not speeding? Your logic would say this.
No, logic would say “If 1000x times more kids are going to be attacked by church youth workers, then let’s focus our attention to where the problem is.” I’ve been a church-going Christian for all my adult life, some 45+ years. In all that time, I have never, ever seen a trans person “attack” anyone. In fact, trans people are people. You’re confusing pedophilia, an actual crime committed by straight adults against powerless children, with non-traditional social behaviors, including the behavior of saying “I would like to live my adult, non-threatening life in a way that pleases me, just like you live your adult live in a non-threatening way.” If trans people need to use the restrooms we straight people use, and they can do so as they have always done—by not making a fuss—then what exactly is the concern?
5. SMH. ” Jesus loved the outcast.” You’re right again but He also told them to ‘Go and sin no more.’
Trans people aren’t sinning. Where did you get that idea from? Jesus said a lot of things recorded in the New Testament, in the Gospels, the book of Acts, and the book of Revelation AFAIK. I looked to see where Jesus made a statement on how trans people are sinning merely by existing, and I could not find it. And I looked for a statement by Jesus in the New Testament where he said “You Christians need to use your religion to make the government punish people who don’t fit your biases and requirements.” I didn’t find those passages. Can you share where you get this idea from, based upon the New Testament words of Jesus? If you need to throw in Paul or the other eyewitness apostles, feel free.
6. Regarding your transgender photos – These “scare samples” mean nothing to people with a brain and common sense.
How do you know this? How do you imagine you can reach inside the heads of people you don’t know?
7. The people you’re depicting have a lot greater issues in life than deciding where to pee.
What are those greater issues? How do you know what they are, and how do you know they are “greater” issues? Are you a trained specialist in any field that would lead anyone to believe you speak authoritatively on how humans behave and what humans want?
8. There is no law that will cure their ills and no law that will make them happy, because they have not come to grips with who they are and how they were created.
Of course not – the purposes of the law aren’t to cure personal ills per se or make people happy per se. The purposes of the law are to enforce reasonable restrictions on behavior so that people in general can enjoy their full human existence without interfering with others’ enjoyment or impinging one’s own enjoyment. It’s up to use to figure out what makes us happy and to pursue it. The law won’t make us happy. It will, we hope, enable us to find the right paths to our own happiness. Not everyone chooses the same path to happiness, which is good and proper, because none of us should be telling someone else what they should do to be happy. We who find happiness can share with others where we found it and how we put it into effect in our lives, but we can’t mandate it.
9. Why is it OK to discriminate against the 99% because the .0001 percent moan, groan, and complain expecting the world to stop and bow at their feet?
Because civil rights are granted at the same level to everyone—100%. If one person in 12 is denied the enjoyment of their civil rights, we pass laws like the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to ameliorate that. If it is one person in 100, or one person in 1000, we would still need to pass laws to ensure that all humans, and especially all Americans in a country conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal, have equal access to the full and complete enjoyment of their civil rights. We don’t want to make the mistake that just because one sheep is lost we should be fine with the 99 remaining. We go out and ensure that all the sheep are found. We go out and ensure that all men have equal access to their civil rights.
10. Thankfully people with common sense who are comfortable in their own skin but not comfortable with an open bathroom policy are fighting back.
What is an “open bathroom policy,” and why are you concerned about it? Most people in my experience in public restrooms go into these restrooms to do the necessary things. The people who use public restrooms to commit petty and felony crimes are doing so in spite of existing laws. It is not a thing that trans people are somehow committing crimes—they are using restrooms like we straight people do—to void and to eliminate in a private, secure, sanitary, and safe setting. Taking away the ability and access for trans people to use public restrooms will result in what, exactly? Do we then expect trans people to somehow “hold it until you get home”?
11. We have been pushed over the edge.
How? What edge? What in the past has led you to believe that right now, if you go into a restroom, you’ll see a trans person using the restroom which will cause such great distress? The essential nature of trans people is that they comport themselves according to the gender they feel. You literally will not know they are trans. So what is this “edge” that so alarms you?
12. There have been incredible rights given …
Literally not true. A completely wrong statement. Rights are something all humans are endowed with equally. We straight people are not “giving” trans people (or others) some special inclusion into human rights. We are doing two things: we are acknowledging they are human, and we are doing the good, proper, and Christian thing to afford them the liberty to exercise their human, civil rights.
13. … to the LGBT (owe and now also add the letters “QIA” in there. We’ll soon likely be adding the whole alphabet in there including “D” for dog) community…
This is literally an unchristian things to do here, Lonnie. You just compared the humans for whom your Christ allegedly died for to dogs. The Jesus I’ve learned to worship and whom I attempt to serve didn’t go to that level of scorn and abuse. He somehow found it fit to save me, the chief of sinners. We can discuss differences in what we think about people without comparing them to animals
14. … but they are never satisfied… always thirsting for more no matter whose rights they trample.
Whose rights are trampled? And how? What is the “right” being trampled here? Is there some right to use a public restroom that requires people we know nothing about (and socially, shouldn’t be focusing on anyway in public restrooms) to be blocked from access and use? Please do the very hard work of justifying this very bizarre position.
15. Chris – I admire you and your churches position on loving all people… I really do… yet you regularly bash Christians who hold traditional values.
What are these traditional values that he bashes? And are they good values? The key to living a Christian life is knowing how to follow Jesus in changing times, and how to identify behaviors and attitudes that are not Kingdom-oriented, no matter how common or popular. I don’t see any “traditional” value that says “you need to keep unloveable people from public restroom access.” Traditional values have been, I think, focused on marriage and family and respect and focus. None of these values, however, can exist as values if they are enforced by law to the exclusion of people who do not fit into traditional roles. They aren’t values at that point. My family isn’t threatened by trans people having a place in society. My marriage isn’t weakened. My commitment to my career and job aren’t threatened. My ability to stay true to my values isn’t affected. I live a fairly conventional life, and I also interact with people daily who do not live their lives the way I do, and I’ll tell you this: I’ve never felt threatened that others don’t choose my way of living. It works for me to do what I do. Letting them do what they want to do affects me not one whit.
16. I’ll admit I don’t understand this.
No snark here, but I think you’re right, and this is the truest thing about your statement. If you want to understand this, you are on the right path by starting a conversation and listening to others. We are all growing in our understanding of what it means to be human and what it means to follow Jesus. We all start from the place of saying what you just said: “I’ll admit I don’t understand this.” I started there about a decade ago, convinced my ways and methods were Christian, and yet extremely puzzled why my ways were not generating any change in my own life, not to mention the lives of those I loved and was in community with. It took some extensive shocks and some very hard and painful work to change. I’m not done yet. I can tell you, however, that the freedom to love people and the freedom to live my life in Christ as Christ leads me is overwhelmingly worth it. If you want to go on this journey, I’ll offer all the encouragement I can.
17. And yes I signed the Target Boycott (but you already knew that).
I don’t think anyone else knew that, but it’s useful information. Signing a boycott, however, isn’t that effective. You have to stop shopping at Target. Your choices are limited, but you’ll need to seek out others places that don’t offer fair access to restrooms. I have a very strong suspicion that the number of places with trans-friendly restroom policies will increase.
18. One of the reasons our country is in the mess we’re in …
What mess is that? Are you speaking of poisoned water across the nation due to government malfeasance and incompetence? Crumbling highways? Dismal schools? Crushing poverty? Rich people earning money from the poor and then removing their money to offshore banks? Kids going to bed hungry at night, or going to school hungry? Women living in their cars with their kids, or on the streets, because we don’t have shelter for them? People of color being maltreated for centuries, selected for abuse by police, incarcerated for crimes at far higher rates and for far longer sentences compare to we good, white people? Are those the problems you’re speaking of? Because if you think access to restrooms is a “problem,” I’d suggest you’re aiming your attention far too low.
19. … is because Christians often haven’t taken a stand …
What is “Christian” about blocking access to public restrooms? I have searched my Bible high and low, and don’t see this as a command from Jesus or his apostles. I do see literal commends to feed the sheep, tend the poor, care for widows and orphans, heal the sick, give liberally to those in need. Can you share the parts in the New Testament that tell us to ignore these commands so we can focus on public restrooms?
20. … so yes, it’s refreshing to see we can make a difference.
What difference are you making? Target isn’t changing its long-standing policies. Telling Target you won’t shop there is completely ineffective unless you and others like you stop shopping there. A boycott built on hate and ignorance is going to fail. A boycott that consists of signing an online petition is…literally useless.
21. It’s not just the Liberal Left that can force change in our society.
This is a good thing. We as people can change our direction. Go for it. Speak up. Use your right of petition and assembly. Vote. Organize people. I encourage it. It is the way a civil society functions, by examining their values and changing where change is needed.
22. And whether Target will admit it or not they are feeling the heat for their choice to be so inclusive …
Evidence? What “heat” are they experiencing? A business exists to make money, first. Are Target sales down over all, and are other stores with more restrictive restroom policies doing better when compared to Target? It might feel good to imagine that Target “feels the heat,” but the evidence so far is that they don’t.
23. … that they actually offend and discriminate against a very large swath of their customers.
Who is being offended? Target sells outfits for children that I consider inappropriate, as they sexualize pre-pubescent girls. That, to me, is far worse than letting trans people use a restroom. Do you know that some Christians boycott Target because of this? Do you know that Target still sells these clothes, because other customers want them? The “swath of customers” who are offended will be replaced by those who are not offended. Target will offer sales and irresistible prices—and people will go back to shopping at Target even though they’re offended. It’s the way the world of Mammon works.
24. Yes as Christians we can’t fight every battle but I won’t feel guilty in trying to make a difference where I can.
I agree we can’t fight every battle; we have to fight the ones that matter. However, this is not a “Christian” battle. This is a conservative-religious battle. Lots of Christians, including Mr. Boeskool and myself, and others, are not convinced this is a “Christian” battle except that as Christians we are trying to ensure that our fellow humans and brothers and even believers are afforded the simple dignity we have: to use a public restroom without busybodies attempting to shame them and exclude them.
I am not attempting to pick on you personally, Lonnie. I don’t know you from Adam. You probably have a full and rich life, with friends and family and a career.
But I am responding to your statements because you have made a grievous error of confusing your personal, conservative, religious values with those of Christ, and making the extraordinarily wrong statement that your personal convictions are somehow to be identified as “Christian,” to the exclusions of millions of Christians who have examined these issues and have reached different conclusions.
There is no “Christian” policy towards public restrooms. We are left by Jesus to figure things out on our own, and we can glean clues about public behavior and public choices. But it is entirely plausible that Jesus’s words to Peter here are good for us, too: “When Peter saw [John], he asked, ‘Lord, what about him?’ Jesus answered, ‘If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.’ ” – the temptation is to enquire of God as to the affairs of others, to ensure that they are following Jesus like we do. Jesus’s response is eternal: “Stop worrying about others’ behavior. Follow me.”
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I completely agree with loving our dear brothers and sisters transgenders, gay community, gender confused etc. No doubt about it that is what Christ asks of us but I have a question for you. You know that Jesus loves them with all his heart and loves all of us because we really are all sinners, but do you agree that he loves us too much to keep us where we are? Do you agree that we need to try to help these precious Souls find their way back to the true commandment of God? Or do we love them and leave them where they are accepting and embracing their lifestyle as though they have nothing to worry about when in reality there is a fear of losing their souls for all eternity. If we really love them then we have to help them too.
I am a Catholic. To have any of these coming to the church our arms should be wide open. However we cannot allow them to receive the body and blood of Jesus Christ. St Paul tells us if we take of the body and blood of Our Lord unworthily we will condemn ourselves. So you see true love is to do all we can to save Souls. Acceptance and tolerance is not really love. Jesus loves The Sinner he ate with the sinners he forgave Mary Magdalene but there was a stipulation. He said come and follow me and sin no more. God bless all of us.
Anyone who follows Jesus will do what he says. It’s on them.
I prefer the response of Jesus when asked for his opinion on the discipleship of another: “What does it matter what I do with him? You just follow me.” (John 21:21-23)
If we want people to follow Jesus, one of the best ways to do that is to show them that we are following him. Then they can come follow, too.
It doesn’t do any good to spend time worrying if they’re doing it the way we think it should be done. We each have our own discipleship path.
It boggles my mind that you think it is our job to be the arbiters of who gets to come to the table…
Even if it were true that being in a committed, life-giving, Christ-honoring, same-sex relationship was considered by God to be some sort of grace-canceling sin (it’s not), you know that Jesus himself served the Eucharist to Judas, right? How do you explain that? Jesus KNEW Judas was going to betray him, and yet JESUS looked at him and said, “This is my body, broken for YOU… This is my blood, shed for YOU…” and offered up the bread and wine. And you think it’s YOUR job to make sure that people who think that God’s grace and mercy are deeper than we could ever imagine AWAY from the table?
I’m sorry… That is just some of the craziest shit I have ever heard.