So you’ve probably already heard: Another unarmed black teenager was shot to death in Florida, and the man who shot and killed him once again went unconvicted of the murder. And once again, just like in Trayvon Martin’s murder that went unpunished by a Florida jury almost two years ago now, a law called “Stand Your Ground” comes into play. This law basically makes it legal to shoot someone if you happen to feel threatened. For example, if you are carrying a gun, and you chase after a kid who is armed with an iced tea and a bag of Skittles, and then that scared kid hits you to get you to stop chasing him, you are legally allowed to shoot that kid in the chest and end his life. Or, if an unarmed kid is in a car playing music too loud at a gas station, you ask him to stop, and he refuses, you are allowed to say you thought he had a gun or a lead pipe, felt like your life was threatened, and shoot him through his car door (as well as his liver and aorta) and end his life.
Truth from Pulitzer Prize winning Cartoonist Jim Morin of the Miami Herald
All justice is not gone from the world, however, as Michael Dunn (the 47 year old white man who pulled his handgun out of the glove box of his car and fired it at four black teenagers listening to some loud rap music) was convicted of four other felonies, including attempted murder of the three friends. Luckily, it is not yet legal in Florida to fire four more shots at an SUV whose occupants are fleeing for their lives as it drives away…. YET.
Here are some things that you probably don’t know about this case:
His name is Jordan Davis, and he deserves better.
1) THE KID’S NAME. His name is Jordan Davis. His middle name in Russell. For some reason, all of the headlines of the stories about this tragedy all seem to refer to him as “black teen.” When Trayvon Martin was murdered, EVERYONE knew his name. Maybe it’s because there was no confusing someone with the name “Trayvon” with a white kid. Maybe Jordan Davis sounds too…. “normal?” I don’t know. But when I sat down to write about this, I’m sad to say I couldn’t remember his name. I had to Google “black teen shot in Florida” to remember it. But he has a name, and it is Jordan Davis. He was someone’s child. His mom’s name is Lucia McBath, and his dad’s name is Ron Davis, and they loved him just like I love my kids. Their boy’s name is not “black teen.” His name is Jordan Davis, and this past Sunday would have been Jordan’s 19th birthday.
Michael Dunn, demonstrating how a person “stands his ground” against an unarmed teen.
2) JUST HOW MUCH RACE PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS MURDER. Micheal Dunn is a sad, scared, racist man. Before he peppered the boys’ car with bullets and ended the life of Jordan Davis for playing his music too loud, Dunn said to his girlfriend, “I hate that thug music.” Now, just in case you didn’t know, “thug” is just the new code for the word “nigger.” If you use the word “thug” to refer to a person with brown skin, you’re not hiding your racism from anyone. We can all see it. And it’s really, really gross. If you hear someone use the word “thug” to describe another person, ask them what they mean when they say that…. And then watch them squirm with appropriate shame.
2nd in his high school class, graduated with honors from Stanford with a Master’s degree…. If this is a thug, I pray my son might someday grow up to be such a thug.
3) I’M NOT KIDDING. MICHAEL DUNN IS REALLY, REALLY RACIST. Some of you might be thinking, “Calling someone a thug does not mean you’re racist.” First of all, yes, it does. Secondly, here are some more Micheal Dunn quotes: In letters and phone calls from jail, he said (in reference to African Americans), “The more time I am exposed to these people, the more prejudiced against them I become.” On a phone call he spoke about being in a cell by himself, and said, “But I guess it would be better than being in a room with them animals.” And in a letter to his daughter, he wrote, “This jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs…. This may sound a bit radical, but if more people would arm themselves and kill these fucking idiots when they’re threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior.” Add to that a letter to his grandmother that said, “I’m not really prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug ‘culture’ that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable.”
Imagine having a child who looks like Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis. How safe would you feel?
As an aside, I cannot explain to you just how prevalent this sort of thinking still is among white people: This idea of “I’ve got nothing against black people. It’s thugs (read: niggers) that I hate.” And the thinking behind that idea is that “I’m fine with people whose skin is a different color, as long as they dress, speak, sound, and act just like me. And as long as they know their place….” I hear this sentiment all the time. It’s the sort of thing that white people only say to other white people, so it’s up to white people to call them on it. This sort of thinking is the stubborn root of a weed of demented, rationalized racism that gets passed along one generation to the next, and IT IS NOT OKAY. It needs to come out root and all, or it will pop up again later.
4) THE KILLER COMPARED HIMSELF TO A RAPE VICTIM. This should give you all the insight into this dude’s mind that you need. In a call to his girlfriend, he said, “[I]t made me think of like the old TV shows and movies where like how the police used to think when a chick got raped going, “Oh, it’s her fault because of the way she dressed.” I’m like, “So it’s my fault (as he laughs) because I asked them to turn their music down. I got attacked and I fought back because I didn’t want to be a victim and now I’m in trouble. I refused to be a victim and now I’m incarcerated.” Later on he said, “I was the one who was victimized … I’m the victor, but I was the victim too.” And you know what? I have no doubt that Michael Dunn actually believes this.
More good cartoon truth, this time from Andy Winters.
And 5) UNDER THE “STAND YOUR GROUND” LAW, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY LEGAL FOR JORDAN DAVIS TO SHOOT MICHAEL DUNN. This “Stand Your Ground” law is a steaming pile of crap. Of course Michael Dunn felt threatened by the young black teenagers in that SUV playing loud rap music! I’d bet he believes that sort of behavior is about as threatening to his way of life as things get. He probably had just those sorts of people in mind when he purchased that handgun. But here’s the lunacy of the law (that, by the way, is also law in 23 other states): If Jordan Davis was armed and would have seen Michael Dunn pull out that handgun from his glove box (for feeling threatened), he should have legally been able to put a bullet through Michael Dunn’s liver and aorta. This law essentially makes it legal to kill people. If the NRA lobbyists who wrote this law have their way and everyone is walking around packing heat, people might start feeling “threatened” all over the place…. Though, I doubt that the NRA is lobbying very hard to get guns in the hands of anymore “thugs.”
The Boeskool 
Words fail me right now. I am so glad you were able to piece this together so succinctly. I just could not believe this happened again. Already. My heart is broken for another set of parents. It’s time to get to work to make it never happen again. I can’t do much from Canada, but for God’s sake, I hope the people of the U.S. wake up already. Change this! Now!
Love your article!! But in #5 you refer to him as Justin Davis..its Jordan Davis
Excellent. Might want to edit “Justin Davis” to “Jordan Davis” in para 5. Well, done sir.
I had not even heard of this case. I am sure it will stand on its’ own merits. Probably would never had heard of the Martin case either but a lot of that case was made so large nationally by a media promoting its own interests. This age of information makes acts of injustice and violence travel at lightening speeds! The truth as well as distortions are ready available. I would point out how MSNBC disceptively edited the 911 call in that case to sound like Martin was being followed because he was black…..it was good for news I guess. My point is, as far as justice is concerned, when viewing racism as an injustice in this era, we must also consider the travesty of “race baiting” and understand there is an entire economy based on it’s success as was slavery built on the foundation of “racism”. Look at it’s leaders and see the wealth they have obtained. They have long forgotten the words of the Republican Civil rights leader MLK that admonished that we “judge by the content of ones character rather than the color of their skin”.
As to the Stand your ground law….Does one think they can actually be fully protected by a police department 20 plus minutes away when confronted by a danger that climaxes in a matter of seconds? We live in a growing fatherless society where angry young men take advantage of prey they view as weak. For every case you point out of injustice regarding this law, there will be four where the law saved the life of an innocent. Myself, I have confronted two young men in a very rural community just as they were preparing to kick down my door at 2:00 a.m.. Had I not furbished a weapon,, stood my ground, my family might have been victims.Fortunately, I was able to allow their safe escape leaving their lives intact, but their next victims may not have that luxury. So for those of you that would advocate personal responsibility to the local authorities, I take issue. There is a growing trend for those that would. They advocate government intervention over personal responsibility in the areas of entitlements as well. This, I will contend, results in the fatherless angry young men that are so prevalent these days.
Let’s make this very clear, this is not about self defense. Most of us are for self defense. This is about a law that states to defend yourself, with lethal force, all you need is to feel threatened. In your case, you were being threatened. You were defending yourself. But this law means that if I hear footsteps behind me in a parking garage, and thus feel threatened, I have the legal right to turn and shoot the person behind me. Sure, it might be just some dude walking to his car but it ‘could’ have been a rapist. The person I shoot doesn’t have to say or do anything threatening…I just have to feel threatened. This is wrong.
Rachel, I am not a lawyer, but I am sure there are cases where the “SYG” law is abused.
To my knowledge this law was made to counter the idiotic notion that if you are threatened, you must run and try to get away.I have heard that is the case in most of your “liberal enlightened” states. I do not believe the law gives you the right to shoot if you hear footsteps. Any use of lethal force requires a great deal of responsibility. I agree wholly with your sentiments however I believe the case you described would never carry water. If it did, I would find it upsetting!
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From the proposed law in my home state: Sec. 3. NEW SECTION. 704.2A Justifiable use of deadly force.
1. For purposes of this chapter, a person is presumed to reasonably believe that deadly force is necessary to avoid injury or risk to one’s life or safety or the life or safety of another in either of the following circumstances:
a. The person against whom force is used, at the time the force is used, is doing any of the following:
(1) Unlawfully entering by force or stealth, or has unlawfully entered by force or stealth and remains within the dwelling, place of business or employment, or occupied vehicle of the person using force.
(2) Unlawfully removing or is attempting to unlawfully remove another person against the other person’s will from the dwelling, place of business or employment, or occupied vehicle of the person using force.
b. The person using force knows or has reason to believe that any of the conditions set forth in paragraph “a” are occurring or have occurred.
Section b is the tricky part…this means that I merely have to prove that I ‘believed’ harm was going to come to me. Now, the law, regarding reasonable force we have, already on the books is as follows: 704.1 REASONABLE FORCE.
“Reasonable force” is that force and no more which a reasonable person, in like circumstances, would judge to be necessary to prevent an injury or loss and can include deadly force if it is reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to avoid injury or risk to one’s life or safety or the life or safety of another, or it
is reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to resist a like force or threat. Reasonable force, including deadly force, may be used even if an alternative course of action is available if the alternative entails a risk to life or safety, or the life or safety of a third party, or requires one to abandon or retreat from one’s dwelling or place of business or employment.
This law already states that I don’t have to retreat…so what is the point of the new SYG law. For that, let’s look at the actual Self Defense part.
704.3 DEFENSE OF SELF OR ANOTHER.
A person is justified in the use of reasonable force when the person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to defend oneself or another from an imminent use of unlawful force.
See the difference. Now, the law we have already allows me to use deadly force to defend myself, without having a duty to retreat, but the new law offers some clever wording…”reason to believe…are occurring” has replaced ‘imminent.’ I no longer have to be in imminent danger to defend myself with lethal force, I just have to believe that I am in danger. There in lies the problem. If you believe that the case would never carry water, then consider this: I, a petite white woman, walk into a parking garage. I hear footsteps behind me. I glance over my shoulder and see a 6′ tall 300lb. black man in a hoodie. He looks at me, I perceive that as threatening, turn and shoot. How is a jury going to see that situation?
Jordan Davis, not Justin. Well written article.
I hope he really becomes a rape victim. He deserves it.
Yah, a bitch to some big bad ass dude!
When I think of the word thug, I don’t think of race or culture. I think of the criminals and gangsters out there that are selling drugs in the neighborhood. I am thinking about the rap songs, because not all are bad, that talk about calling each other niggas which is a slang term for nigger which I don’t not even like typing much less hearing. A lot of these songs call women bitches and talk about having sex, getting drunk, and doing drugs. None of which should be done to the extent that it is said. Drinking is legal, however drinking too much can get you killed. Drugs are illegal and just thinking about women for sex and treating them like dirt is wrong. No I don’t think this man is right at all because he is a disgrace to the entire human race, but thugs, which are gangsters and other criminals no matter what the dress, type of music, the way someone acts, are not good for the world. They should not be killed, but if he didn’t want to be around them he should not have tried to kill four innocent children. I do believe that these songs are not good for society. Not all rap is bad but the ones who degrade every woman and talk about drugs and sex as well as getting drunk all the time are not good. Drinking responsibly is not bad but this is what I feel about the situation.
On another note this guy got what he deserved and more… I know he will get what comes to him for his wrong ways. I just would like to see more people get in trouble for things that they do. I would like to see my generation act like they have more sense than what they do and try to pay attention in school. I would like to see the people who are selling drugs in my neighborhood to get caught and for life to be better. Either way, I wanted to clarify on a few things. Not anyone who uses thug uses it the right way. But the right way is to talk about the gangsters and criminals and not just anyone that like rap. Anyways, it was overall a good article and I agree with everything you said.
Great article. But I do want to point out one thing. You say the following: “I hear this sentiment all the time. It’s the sort of thing that white people only say to other white people, so it’s up to white people to call them on it. This sort of thinking is the stubborn root of a weed of demented, rationalized racism that gets passed along one generation to the next, and IT IS NOT OKAY. It needs to come out root and all, or it will pop up again later” I agree with the concept but not with that this is just a “white people” thing. All races have this problem. All races have terms they used to refer to other races. I wish that we could just be humans, not Black, White, Asian, Rich, Poor, etc…..It may not happen during my lifetime but I will do everything I can to move us in that direction. This event is very personal to me because it happened right down the street from where I live. I say the police cars there the night it happened. I do think Michael Dunn is guilty. here is a link to an article where one of the jurors speaks out. http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/why-the-dunn-trial-deadlocked-murder?cid=sm_facebook
Of course you are 100% correct Noelle, but do you realize if we didn’t divide and separate by race a lot of African American folks would leave the Government Plantation?
Jesse and Al would be unemployed to boot!
Great article, Chris, as always. It leaves me with a few questions, though. First, I agree (from what I know) that Dunn was obviously in the wrong for shooting Davis. There was even less evidence that he was threatened than in the Trayvon case. I also agree that all signs point to him having racial prejudice in his heart. But what I don’t understand is why his racism really matters at all. Shouldn’t the verdict hinge on whether or not he was truly threatened? I mean, what if Davis (hypothetically) had pointed a real gun at Dunn or at the grand wizard of the KKK for that matter? Does one’s beliefs, however twisted, negate their right to self defense? Or to look at it another way, what if Dunn were black? How should the verdict have gone then? To me, those questions get to the heart of whether or not justice was served in this verdict. I don’t really see what is gained by drawing out the racial aspect to these cases. Honestly, I think it is much more harmful than not. It reinforces the prejudiced stereotype that white people are deep down racists that have these secret diabolical motives that they only share with each other. If I’m a black person hearing a white person say that, it’s going to feed into my fears in a big way. But is it true? Sometimes it is. And sometimes white people show sacrificial love to people regardless of race, color, or anything else. You never really know what’s in someone’s heart. In any given instance, a racist person might help you change a flat or a sweet little granny might feel threatened and shoot the wrong person or the other way around. It can’t be assumed that a person’s beliefs and their deeds are consistent. In my opinion, in times like these people need to be reminded of the good in the other side and try as hard as we can to focus on the facts rather than presuming to know what’s going on inside another person’s heart. What do you think, brother?
You didn’t ask me, but I think your post is exceptional!
Yes!
It goes to whether his belief that he was in danger was reasonable, and far too many white people seem to think “young+ black =threatening” is a logical equation when it doesn’t actually add up at all
I do not think the word “thug” is quite as abrasive as “nigger”, but I do think you are correct that many people (but not all) use it in a way that people would have used the term “nigger” 30-40 years ago. so maybe in 30-40 years it will be, but right now thug does not describe a person’s race, but it may describe how they wear their pants, what tattoos they have, and/or what kind of music they listen to. Maybe all this is racism in me. I’m no stranger to it, I was unfortunately taught it by just about everyone in my small town when growing up. I hope by admitting my failures, I am on my way to the promised land that MLK spoke about during his last speech.
Let’s see, the two instances of old white man vs young black man shootings sure do make you scratch your head and question the scope of what you can or might “get away with” regarding syg laws. But lets flip the script and say trayvon was on top of zimmerman, found his gun and shot him dead. Trayvon is then captured, tried as an adult and shipped away to prison for 10-20 years all the while people bemoan how he was just a kid like the thousands of other kids that have shot and killed others. In fact, had travon killed zimmerman, this would have not been a story. No one would have ever known the story except for friends and family of the affected and the whole instance would just get added to the huge pile of black kid vs white crime that seems to get overlooked. It is almost like black vs white crime is socially accepted even though b vs w is waaaayyy more common that w vs b yet there are 200 million whites and 30 million blacks. Why is it no one cares how a group of black ppl car jacked, raped tortured and violently murdered a white couple in tn 5 years ago yet the justics system is still dealing with the case?
Point is, the selective outrage of some of these cases in which there are a great deal of grey area get some folks all worked up yet the same outrage is not shown when the script is flipped. Dont get me wrong, these cases are tough to understand but seems as though ppl like to cling to these crazy cases of exceptions while ignoring truly sick and twisted murders because the victims do not fit an agenda
Just to bolster your point of view….by popular definitions, Zimmerman is not white, he is Latino. Furthermore, our President is not black. In fact he is just as much white as he is black. I know these revelations might sound disturbing to some but they are the truth. It kind of ruins the arguments of all the “Race Baiters” and takes the wind out of their sails!
Again, MLK was right, we must only judge by the content of their character. This thread was started with the motive to make race an issue!.
“Judge me not by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character.” -Martin Luther King Jr.
So is being a thug not a character challenge? Is it racial? I couldn’t read past the third paragraph and your white guilt made me stop. There are caucasians most would agree are thugs. You’re just encouraging all this Helter-Skeltor bullshit that every one hates each other based on race. I am here to say it’s not. It’s based on individuals actions, that of the offending, and that of the ignorant defenders. You’re perpetuating this hate. Not solving it. We’re all people, and it’s a shame that you, with your “justified” perceptions are a catalyst to that which you are fighting. Shame on you, author of this article. Shame.
Dad, I share your sentiments completely. I was starting to accept the belief that I am racist because I was told that for so long. I preferred, however, to be known as a “culturist” if I am going to be forced in a box. Recently just read the book, America the Beautiful by Dr. Benjamin Carson. This man has not only lived the American ideal, but he articulates my own thoughts the way no one else has ever done. Dr. Carson of course is Afro-American and now I realize, like Dr. Carson, I am not a racist and that all men are potentially productive citizens if treated with dignity. The entitlement mentality robs many of that dignity! I so long to see the change that is coming!
This issue of distrust in our fellow man and fear of “thugs” is self fulfilling, just as the idea of “lazy takers”. When you place stereotypes on groups of people based on your own biases, it is quick and easy to make a case for nearly anything. And then just like that, see, those people are bad people or lazy people or whatever.
The comments like those people are thugs, or people are godless and are just looking for ways to hurt the innocent, or those people are lazy and only want handouts. The are a choice in how to view the world, a choice to make everyone an enemy, an opponent or a victim. The opposite is just as true…people are good but we just need to show them love to make sure they grow up and stay good, people generally want to be proud of their lives and don’t want handouts, I see how those people love their families just like I do…and so on. Once your thoughts become words, then your words influence action.
More than being afraid of a pained person hurting or killing me, I am afraid that this nation is becoming a group of wrongfully pained, hateful and privileged individuals that are turning the tides of how we all live together peacefully and in the best way possible.
Add to this negative spin on all things different with the fact that humans act irrationally and sometimes in extreme fear and/or anger and you’ve created a terrible monster. Just look at this guy in the theatre that shot some poor dad on a cellphone. Ex-cop, highly trained, etc., yet what does he do the first time he runs into someone that gets in his face a bit and throws some popcorn? He boils with anger. He can’t believe this punk would dare ignore his polite requests. How dare he, I hate him…and now he’s standing up and getting in my face and throwing things at me…I want to kill him. Oh wait, I have a gun, I’ll show this little shit…BAM!! Nothing has changed from bible times til today. Some people are good, some are evil and many are just assholes who get in your face and throw popcorn. The rest are simply scared and think carrying a gun around town is the answer when it never was before and it never will be
I’m quite sure along the way, somebody carrying a gun about town will stop some violent act. That is not an pro argument for stand your ground – at least as far as I can tell based on the injuries, deaths and overall change on attitudes about our fellow man. Just a horrible, horrible law.
So Chad….do you believe a person is required to turn his back on an attacker and try to get away? Or should he be aloud to “stand his ground”. I think a lot of the more liberal folks here are trying to twist the intent of this law. Most liberals believe you should call 911 and then wait 20 minutes after all, we don’t have a personal; responsibility to defend ourselves or our families. That like most everything else is the job of the “nanny state”! ….
Like it or not, the old man has a point…
I grew up in a small town in wisconsin where we had plenty of thugs. This town had zero diversity when i was a kid. It was the brawlers that were referred to as thugs. People in that town still use the word thug and it is not racial. It may be where you are from, but that doesn’t mean that everyone that uses the word thug is a racist. I find that most of the people that try to make these common words racist are actually the ones who don’t like people with skin color other than there own. The old guy who did the shooting would be classified as the thug here.
The word “thugs” brings to mind the men the Union men that blew the front bedroom off my neighbors house in Indiana for breaking a strike when I was a small boy. We called them “Union thugs”….but today they want to make it about race!.
To bdhstone, your comment makes my point. Your focus is on an idea that people are out there to hurt your family. Add this negative and/or fearful view of your neighbors and mix it with misplaced biases about those who are different… black teens, Muslims or even young white dads in theaters and the situation is ripe for bad decisions. I think we are seeing this proof and my point again is that this so called need to feel protected from all those bad people is self fulfilling… more distrust and fear creates more problems. These large scale societal changes outweigh the benefits. I’m guessing mr Dunn for one will soon agree once his bank account has been depleted for lawyers and his life thrown away to prison. Protecting your family and your home has never been in question. And yes, in all the major stand your ground cases discussed, walk away would have been the smart decision. There is a reason cops are so amazing, they are trained and forced to identify themselves and shoot only when in grave danger. This whole “I feared for my life” bs surrounding syg law is opposite.
I am not paranoid that people are out to hurt my family. In fact, I am not armed most of the time. However, in Arizona, that is for me to know and you to find out! Why do the crimes in places like New York City, Chicago, and Los Angeles. far exceed cities of similar populations where we have a right to conceal carry? Is it because they are paranoid?…. or is it because predators do not like the thought of retaliation.? Enforcement are well trained . You are correct. In general by far, you do not ever see responsible gun owners or NRA members involved in irresponsible shootings yet I fear you paint them with a broad brush. Until you show me instances where someone is not held responsible by a jury for irresponsible shootings due to syg….I remain unconvinced.
You tell the elderly man that is having the living daylights knocked out of him due to a road rage incident that he should walk away or call 911. Or the women that is being pursued by a leering, groping, “thug” to just keep walking. How ’bout the man who is having his head bounced off a concrete sidewalk like a basketball? Of course you could just claim it was all due to race and they had it coming!
With regard to “thug”. I appreciate your comments about what the word means to you. But I do think that word has evolved and is most often used to describe black men who listen to rap and wear sagging jeans. I think the concern here is that in both the Zimmerman and Dunn cases, the word was used and identifies a greater concern that a false fear of young blacks is growing..one making them a danger first and an annoyance second and a neighbor last
I’m glad you are not paranoid but it sure seems like some are. I pray that all those other Zimmermans and Dunns live blessed lives where nothing ever makes them nervous, scared or threatened. I also pray for the thugs to stop playing their loud music, talking back, being rude in theaters or getting physical when they feel threatened.
Chad, you have my respect……can’t beat prayer!
Note: He didn’t use Stand Your Ground, though… http://abcnews.go.com/US/floridas-stand-ground-law-determine-zimmerman-dunn-cases/story?id=22543929
Sensationalist journalism at it’s best. Let’s incite the masses by creating falsities and exaggerations. This is a tragic story, but the author uses it more for his own agenda than for journalistic integrity. Is the law perfect? Hardly. Few are. Does this law protect more potential victims than it causes? Isn’t that a better measure than striking down a law based on one incident? I bet you can find a case for every law ever made where a victim was created because of that law. Let cooler heads prevail.
George I’m open to hearing the numbers. Granted, I am lumping together SYG and open carry – realizing that STY stories are popping up at homes with positive results. Not really an issue for me though as self-defense of home with guns has always been here. I think a fairer picture is both inside and outside the home. So far I’m hearing a few instances where an individual is outside thier home and has defended themselves from a threat, or has a successful intervention in a crime or stopping a murder. Meanwhile, I’m finding actual research with numerous cases where conceal carry and SYG are resulting in loss of hundreds of lives…usually with knee-jerk reactions, boiling anger and the usual animalistic behavior that has always occured by previously ended with a fat lip or a broken rib. My feeling is your image of the law protecting is based on only a couple cases. And ignores as my earlier point offers, a hugely negative impact on how we view neighbors as potential threats/enemies.
Marie, I wasn’t clear if this was a purely SYG arguement in court. Thank you. However, he makes an aggressive approach to another person, that person threatens him back, he feels threatened and then he kills the threat. Now the lawyers argue he was the victim. Almost word for word arguement in the Zimmerman case no matter how you label it. In many cases, I’m having a hard time understanding where the lines for actual self-defense and SYG begin and end. It seems so to do the gun owners and courts.
You won’t ever hear the numbers- or at least any semblance of true numbers. Successful defense of life and property doesn’t get officially reported (by successful, I mean with no shots being fired). If you read gun journals at all, several of them list stories every month where ownership of a gun has saved an owner’s life or property (sometimes with or without a shot) inside and outside the home. The liberal media rarely ever picks up those stories, so most anecdotal evidence is lost to the general public. If the tables were turned, and the media supported pro-gun stories, we would likely live in a society where crime was down due to a majority of citizens owning/carrying firearms. Would it be a perfect society? Of course not. But the evidence is there that banning guns doesn’t deter crime (violent or not), so there’s no reason to believe that increasing the ability to defend one’s self with a firearm would increase crime.
George, I understand your point about home a personal protection, and I agree that there are numerous cases where guns protect people, thus causing no injury or death – thus no news. I am happy for this freedom as I always have been. I do not wish to have a gun in my home, but go right ahead. However, as I stated, I do not see clearly how SYG or carry laws are beneficial in place of long-standing self-defense of home and property.
And you know that if a carry-folk thwarted an assault/murder or even robbery with their gun in public, that we would have it plastered all over the news and social media, so that is just not true.
My issue is with this belief that carrying weapons around protects more than it harms (out in the public), which is absolutely not the case. Particularly when you add-on a transformation of people’s attitudes toward each other in public. We somehow neglect this huge social shift as a terrible effect of the law. I for one am already more conscious about speaking my mind to strangers or doing something that might seem threatening (I’m male, 6’3″ and I do wear a black hoodie in the city at night sometimes).
Essentially, the message is becoming, you need to carry a weapon outside so that you get to decide when a person needs a lesson (Curtis Reeves/theater shooting), or when threat is unavoidable and end it (Dunn). But much more dangerous on a grand scale, is that you make a stronger force when others want to stand up in public against their own perceived threat, or stand face-to-face against a person they feel has wronged them (Zimmerman). Socially, this is a terrible trend that either ends with many more incidences like the recent three in discussion, or with a large part of the population giving up equality so as not to upset any twitchy, behavior “police”.
Wow! This article is so unprofessional and one-sided its not even funny! “Youre a racist if you use the word thug” oh please! To the Stupid whiny wuss that wrote this article: grow up
Right. The hip-hop/rap culture embraced the word thug(g) in lyric and in pseudonyms. Now, if you’re white and use the word, you’re racist. Just like the ‘new’ word ‘nigga’- used as a term of friendship in some youthful circles, unless of course you’re white- then that word is racist. Reverse discrimination at its finest.
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I live in Jacksonville, FL . Here is something you might not know about the case. #1 Michael Dunn is an idiot for leaving the scene. #2 calling someone a thug does not make you racist because there are plenty of white thugs here in Jacksonville. #3 If the Jacksonville Sheriffs office did there job and searched for a gun that day instead of waiting 4 days, we could say if there was or wasn’t a gun. #4 this is not a fact but what I think happened…The cops thought oh well it’s another dead nigger killed by another nigger. (It happens on our streets daily and that is a real crime) So the case was not handled correctly and those cops should not be cops. Michael Dunn will sit in jail for the rest of his life because he chose to pull a gun. If he was justified in doing it he should have never left the scene. He states he was afraid they were going to come back and they did. This is where most people think that there was a gun in the car and they were getting rid of it in the parking lot down there street but we will never know because JSO did not do their job. Why would you leave the scene and come back to the scene where the crazy white guy just shot your buddy and was trying to kill you? Take the boy to a hospital and fill out the police report there. It is all a big mess……… I believe in the stand your ground law because let me tell you living in a town like this, don’t think I wont shoot you if you threaten me. It is not safe here in the daylight and sure not safe in the dark. It has become a sad sad world. You want to write about someone wronged…search Melissa Alexander from Jacksonville, FL. She is being screwed by the SYG law.
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I agree that Dunn was no doubt racist. But to say the word “thug” means the N word then that is something that you have accepted. The same could be said for the word “cracker” and that gets used just as much. Racism is on both sides of the fence. Who will stop first should be the question here.
Answer?….the most mature among us! Unfortunately this whole thing is fueled by the “race baiters” and their political agenda is obvious. The left cannot win with their lofty holier than thou-Gruber-like principles, so they want to drag us back to the sixties……..imagining Jim Crow all over again where their communist sympathizers can take to the streets, burn buildings, and garner national media attention while the head executive legitimizes illegal immigration, and inflames our enemies!. Thugs come in all colors and is absolutely not race related! Those of us, both black and white, who value an orderly society, have been brought up with respect for the law, and do not resist arrest! We can challenge law, but we do it with respect! So the left likes to magnify these “thugs” to develop a case! They paint thugs like Martin as young pre-teens, Brown as a “gentle giant” to initially win support! These are lies in the greatest sense! So for now the media has a “statist agenda” but when the SOROS money is gone…..that will change!
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stand your ground works for all races you see racism everywere.i live in Daytona beach Florida 38% black i drink in a bar tbat at night is all black except for me.we get along fine.my apt complex is mixed same tbere no problem.i would be a fool if i thought racism dud not exist.not to tbe extent you and the other race baiters claim.